Pathfinder 2200XL TE w/250 SHO Prop Help

[silverking]

I currently have a 21 pitch 4 blade Powertech prop on my 250 SHO 4 stroke.  The boat is a 2011 Pathfinder 2200 TE with T-Top, trolling motor and 4 batteries.  All in all it performs well with a quick hole shot, good cruise and decent top end.  The concern I have is that I can't turn very high RPM's at WOT especially with a heavy load.  With a normal load I am topping out around 5300/5400 RPM and with a heavy load right at 5000 RPM.  Top speed is around 55 with a normal load and cruise is 4000 RPM at 42+/- MPH.  I am happy with the performance overall but concerned about the potential low WOT RPM's effect on engine longevity.  My main goal would be to keep my current performance but increase the WOT RPM's.   

My question is what pitch and model prop are you running on your 2200 Pathfinder? 

From reading most of the posts on this forum it seems many are running 19/20 inch 4 blade Powertechs with good numbers, although some also seem to get higher RPM's than me with the 21 pitch. 

I am also interested in the Bravo 1 FS which many seem to have great success with.  For those with a Bravo 1 FS what pitch do you find works best on your 2200, preferably XL model?  

I also sent an email to Marcus at Powertech asking for advise and am waiting for his response. 

[HoneyB]

I will take a stab at putting up some relevant information even though I run a 2200 TRS rather than a TE.

My boat with a 200 sho did not like the 19 pitch ofx3 that was on the boat when i bought it.

 being a mercury guy from way back I had some props to try. The tempest plus 21 lifted the hull and ran like a champ but the wot rpm was short.

  I put on a Enertia 19 pitch and it lifted the boat and ran very well. this prop ran the boat around 50 depending on the load. rpm up in 5900 range.

 

Next came the flash of the 200SHO. Horse Power  now top secret even to me, but yes it has the full flash. I ran the 19 Enertian just to see how fast it would spin up and then got serious on prop trials.

 First prop 21 pitch tempest plus. my go to favorite prop. 62 mph at 6200rpm

 second prop ( forum member nice enough to let me borrow)  bravo 1fs. 22 pitch. great prop. This prop ran even though the entire rpm range as far as rpm and speed. in other words 4000 was 40 mph and so on  and again 62.5 or so at 6200. this prop seemed to have a slight edge over the tempest plus as it was kinda point and shoot and the top speed was there the tempest plus seemed to have to fiddle with trim and such and run longer to get to the max speed.

 Feeling I had some room on wot and using the results from the bowered Bravo 1fs i ordered one in 24 pitch. did not seem to work as well in the mid-range and top speed was still about 62.5. I was really hoping to get to 65 but I had at least 25 gallons of fuel and the wind was blowing honestly 20 mph that day. I may have gotten a (bad) one out of the box so I have feelers out for someone to check the prop and possibly pitch it down to 23. So more to come on that one.

In between some of these props I ran a tempest plus 22 pitch that I rented form prop gods. That prop was proof that you can get a bad prop that looks great. Nothing about it made sense in rpm vs speed compared to the other props that were of the same  type props.

 

So if I were to prop the 2200TE, I would run a 21 tempest plus and Bravo1fs in 21 or 22 pitch if possible before buying.

 

[Dobey1]

16 hours ago, HoneyB said:

I will take a stab at putting up some relevant information even though I run a 2200 TRS rather than a TE.

My boat with a 200 sho did not like the 19 pitch ofx3 that was on the boat when i bought it.

 being a mercury guy from way back I had some props to try. The tempest plus 21 lifted the hull and ran like a champ but the wot rpm was short.

  I put on a Enertia 19 pitch and it lifted the boat and ran very well. this prop ran the boat around 50 depending on the load. rpm up in 5900 range.

 

Next came the flash of the 200SHO. Horse Power  now top secret even to me, but yes it has the full flash. I ran the 19 Enertian just to see how fast it would spin up and then got serious on prop trials.

 First prop 21 pitch tempest plus. my go to favorite prop. 62 mph at 6200rpm

 second prop ( forum member nice enough to let me borrow)  bravo 1fs. 22 pitch. great prop. This prop ran even though the entire rpm range as far as rpm and speed. in other words 4000 was 40 mph and so on  and again 62.5 or so at 6200. this prop seemed to have a slight edge over the tempest plus as it was kinda point and shoot and the top speed was there the tempest plus seemed to have to fiddle with trim and such and run longer to get to the max speed.

 Feeling I had some room on wot and using the results from the bowered Bravo 1fs i ordered one in 24 pitch. did not seem to work as well in the mid-range and top speed was still about 62.5. I was really hoping to get to 65 but I had at least 25 gallons of fuel and the wind was blowing honestly 20 mph that day. I may have gotten a (bad) one out of the box so I have feelers out for someone to check the prop and possibly pitch it down to 23. So more to come on that one.

In between some of these props I ran a tempest plus 22 pitch that I rented form prop gods. That prop was proof that you can get a bad prop that looks great. Nothing about it made sense in rpm vs speed compared to the other props that were of the same  type props.

 

So if I were to prop the 2200TE, I would run a 21 tempest plus and Bravo1fs in 21 or 22 pitch if possible before buying.

 

 HoneyB thought you would like this info. My buddy has a 22TRS flashed 200SHO no T-Top with an OFX21 and sees 63/64 MPH at 6k RPM loaded. Mid range is matched on plain. 35 to 35 and so on. I have to think with a lite boat it may be 67MPH. Hope this helps you more with your propping adventure. I bought BradM's OFX20 to try out and we discussed your set up via phone conversation. Thank you for your info and post.  

[HoneyB]

Yeah man no t top is the key to wot speed. I have no doubt I would be running 65mph without it. Even with the t top I have seen 62.5 to 63mph. 

How did the prop you got from brad do for u?

[Dobey1]

18 hours ago, HoneyB said:

Yeah man no t top is the key to wot speed. I have no doubt I would be running 65mph without it. Even with the t top I have seen 62.5 to 63mph. 

How did the prop you got from brad do for u?

Not yet. Honestly just haven't cared.  I will let you know my findings when I do. 

[silverking]

As an update to my original post above, I spoke with Marcus today regarding my current powertech prop and what alternative pitch he would recommend if I stayed with powertech for any replacement prop.  Based on my information he recommended a 19 pitch OFX4 prop.  He believes that should get my RPM's up to around 5700/5800.  

He also stated that he has found the powertech props run best at between 2 and 3 on the jack-plate and trimmed up about 1/4 of the way.  I will have to try this setup and see if my numbers improve.  I remember that when I water tested the boat the owner had recommended the same jack plate settings but trimmed the motor to the top of the gauge range instead of just a 1/4.  The gps had us hitting 57.6 then at WOT but I did not check the RPM at the time.  We were also loaded lite with only the trolling motor on the bow and three (3) people.  No cooler, fishing equipment or water in the live wells and only about 1/2 a tank of gas.  

Since owning the boat I found that it performed best with the jackplate all the way down and trimmed to around 3 on the Yamaha trim gauge when cruising.  I have not ran it much at WOT and therefore, have not tried to see if different settings worked better at WOT vs. cruising speed.  I will try Marcus's suggestion and see what happens.  

The other thing Marcus stated was that he found that the newer SHO's were tuned different than the originals.  The early model SHO's were successfully turning the 21 inch prop without issue, however the newer models were doing better with the 19 inch props depending on how the boat was rigged.  I have seen this same comment in other forums and threads when discussing propping the SHO motors.  This theory is also supported by some of the people who have had the SHO's flashed removing the factory tuning.  They seem to be able to turn higher pitch props vs. the basic stock SHO at the same horsepower.  

I really liked the way the OFX4 performed overall so I may look into dropping down to a 19 pitch.  However, I am still open to other options.

I researched the Rev 4 which many people like equal or better than he OFX4.  However, most agree it does not have the same grip as the OFX4 when raised on the jackplate or trimmed up high such as when running very shallow water.  I do a lot of shallow inshore fishing and the ability to run skinny is one of my bigger needs from a prop.

I also asked Ken at propgods about running the Bravo 1 FS.  Since the lowest pitch is 22 he was not sure I would be able to generate the speed needed to get the higher RPM's I was looking for.  He thought I would need to get over 60 MPH to get sufficiently high RPM's and wasn't sure that was possible the way my boat was rigged. It would probably turn about the same RPM's as the 21 pitch OFX4 but he did state it might be worth trying to see what happens in the real world.  He said it does seem to run great on the 23 HPS.  It also seems to do good on the flashed SHO's that are tuned different than factory or for higher than 250 hp.       

[Bocacaptain12]

I have a 2003 - 2200v and just re-powered with a new Yam 200 SHO, and tried it with the Saltwater Series 21 pitch prop.  Full throttle and trimmed out, boat rpm’s max at 4700 and top speed 50.  Boat would not ride good at all.

i put my old 4 blade prop with 16 pitch and rpm max 6000 and top speed 48.   Not happy with this performance  

i want to run 55 or so, but also not loose the performance and HP of the new 200 SHO.

i have been advised to talk to Marcus, but I have to find out how to contact.  Lol

 

[Captsteve12]

I have a 2003 - 2200v and just re-powered with a new Yam 200 SHO, and tried it with the Saltwater Series 21 pitch prop.  Full throttle and trimmed out, boat rpm’s max at 4700 and top speed 50.  Boat would not ride good at all.

i put my old 4 blade prop with 16 pitch and rpm max 6000 and top speed 48.   Not happy with this performance  

i want to run 55 or so, but also not loose the performance and HP of the new 200 SHO.

i have been advised to talk to Marcus, but I have to find out how to contact.  Lol

[geeviam]

9 hours ago, Captsteve12 said:

i have been advised to talk to Marcus, but I have to find out how to contact.

http://mbgforum.com/profile/251-marcus/

You could try sending him a PM

[HoneyB]

7 hours ago, Captsteve12 said:

I have a 2003 - 2200v and just re-powered with a new Yam 200 SHO, and tried it with the Saltwater Series 21 pitch prop.  Full throttle and trimmed out, boat rpm’s max at 4700 and top speed 50.  Boat would not ride good at all.

i put my old 4 blade prop with 16 pitch and rpm max 6000 and top speed 48.   Not happy with this performance  

i want to run 55 or so, but also not loose the performance and HP of the new 200 SHO.

i have been advised to talk to Marcus, but I have to find out how to contact.  Lol

 I do not know if you have said if you have a t top, but 55 might be hard to achieve with a 200. I am not sure of the weight difference in your boat and my 2200trs but with a t top 52ish was all I could ever do with my 200. without a t top you would probably  see 55 pretty easy. I was running a 19 enertia, turning 5900 at 52.5mph. about the same with my worked 21 tempest plus. get a 19 tempest plus and let it fly.

[Captsteve12]

I do have a T top.  I will be trying out new prop from Power Tech this weekend.  The one I recently tried out was a 15 x 16 pitch and boat ran wot 5400 rpm, 45 mph. This the 15 x 15 4 blade should be the key.

 

[BradM]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 1:33 PM, silverking said:

As an update to my original post above, I spoke with Marcus today regarding my current powertech prop and what alternative pitch he would recommend if I stayed with powertech for any replacement prop.  Based on my information he recommended a 19 pitch OFX4 prop.  He believes that should get my RPM's up to around 5700/5800.  

He also stated that he has found the powertech props run best at between 2 and 3 on the jack-plate and trimmed up about 1/4 of the way.  I will have to try this setup and see if my numbers improve.  I remember that when I water tested the boat the owner had recommended the same jack plate settings but trimmed the motor to the top of the gauge range instead of just a 1/4.  The gps had us hitting 57.6 then at WOT but I did not check the RPM at the time.  We were also loaded lite with only the trolling motor on the bow and three (3) people.  No cooler, fishing equipment or water in the live wells and only about 1/2 a tank of gas.  

Since owning the boat I found that it performed best with the jackplate all the way down and trimmed to around 3 on the Yamaha trim gauge when cruising.  I have not ran it much at WOT and therefore, have not tried to see if different settings worked better at WOT vs. cruising speed.  I will try Marcus's suggestion and see what happens.  

The other thing Marcus stated was that he found that the newer SHO's were tuned different than the originals.  The early model SHO's were successfully turning the 21 inch prop without issue, however the newer models were doing better with the 19 inch props depending on how the boat was rigged.  I have seen this same comment in other forums and threads when discussing propping the SHO motors.  This theory is also supported by some of the people who have had the SHO's flashed removing the factory tuning.  They seem to be able to turn higher pitch props vs. the basic stock SHO at the same horsepower.  

I really liked the way the OFX4 performed overall so I may look into dropping down to a 19 pitch.  However, I am still open to other options.

I researched the Rev 4 which many people like equal or better than he OFX4.  However, most agree it does not have the same grip as the OFX4 when raised on the jackplate or trimmed up high such as when running very shallow water.  I do a lot of shallow inshore fishing and the ability to run skinny is one of my bigger needs from a prop.

I also asked Ken at propgods about running the Bravo 1 FS.  Since the lowest pitch is 22 he was not sure I would be able to generate the speed needed to get the higher RPM's I was looking for.  He thought I would need to get over 60 MPH to get sufficiently high RPM's and wasn't sure that was possible the way my boat was rigged. It would probably turn about the same RPM's as the 21 pitch OFX4 but he did state it might be worth trying to see what happens in the real world.  He said it does seem to run great on the 23 HPS.  It also seems to do good on the flashed SHO's that are tuned different than factory or for higher than 250 hp.       

You can get the Bravo 1 FS, down as low as 20 pitch. I think JEM (who used to frequent this forum) is running one on his 22 TE,  with a 225. He's running right at or a tick over 60 with it. He was previously running an OFS, if I recall...Maybe a 3 blade OFX. If you're turning a 20 Pitch OFX4 now, you can certainly turn a 20 pitch Bravo and gain RPM. There really isn't any comparison  between the two, even though they're  both 20" props, you'll gain RPM out of the Bravo.

I am running a 23 HPS with the Bravo FS in 22 pitch, which is where Ken got his info from. My boat came with a Power Tech OFX4/20 and while it ran okay and gripped well, almost too well, it was simply slow. It was also difficult to turn port, at anything much over 50 mph. I ran a Rev 4 in 23, and couldn't turn it very well. I then barrowed a FS from a friend, and loved it! I went from having to work the trim and jack plate to non-stop to tap 57 MPH with the Power Tech, to literally point and shoot to 63 MPH with the Bravo. There's nothing wrong with Power Tech props, namely the OFX4. Your expectations need to be in line with what a prop of that era produces compared to newer prop designs. I find that the Bravo FS spools up faster, while providing better fuel burn at cruise. It's also faster....6+ mph in my case.

You mentioned running the jack plate up, not sure how far, but if your boat runs similar to mine, you wont run too far with it too high. And definitely not at any rate of speed that handling will be of concern. I idle with my plate up all the way. Anything above 4" will throw a buzzer at cruise speed. Something to consider for sure. With all that being said, the Bravo FS has been known to sling a blade. I have not experienced that, but some have.

I'm going to look for JEM's post about him switching to a Bravo 1 with his TE. I think around the same era as yours, no top.

[silverking]

I was able to obtain a Powertec OFX4 19 pitch to try out.  I have now run it twice, both times fairly heavily loaded. 

The first time I was not able to open it up due to weather conditions, wind and heavy rain.  However, it cruised well with MPH about 1-2 mph lower than the RPM's depending on trim settings.

The second time I opened it up on the way out with two (2) large adults, a heavy teenager and a child, 36v trolling motor on bow and loaded cooler on bow, full rear livewell and full tank of gas and t-top.  I was able to get the RPM's up to 5700 and top speed of just under 54 mph.  

With my 21 pitch prop with a little bit lighter load (less people and a little less fuel) and similar conditions I was only able to get about 5000 RPM's and about 52 mph.  I also never could get my 21 to do well when raising the jackplate or trim regardless of load.  It performed better buried or barely trimmed for some reason.  The 19 pitch on the other hand improves performance with trim and a higher jackplate.

I have not had a chance to check cruise efficiency yet as the first trip out I had the tabs fully down due to windy/wavy conditions and the second trip spent the majority of it playing around at higher rpms or WOT.  Neither is good for the mpg.      

[silverking]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:24 PM, BradM said:

You can get the Bravo 1 FS, down as low as 20 pitch. I think JEM (who used to frequent this forum) is running one on his 22 TE,  with a 225. He's running right at or a tick over 60 with it. He was previously running an OFS, if I recall...Maybe a 3 blade OFX. If you're turning a 20 Pitch OFX4 now, you can certainly turn a 20 pitch Bravo and gain RPM. There really isn't any comparison  between the two, even though they're  both 20" props, you'll gain RPM out of the Bravo.

I am running a 23 HPS with the Bravo FS in 22 pitch, which is where Ken got his info from. My boat came with a Power Tech OFX4/20 and while it ran okay and gripped well, almost too well, it was simply slow. It was also difficult to turn port, at anything much over 50 mph. I ran a Rev 4 in 23, and couldn't turn it very well. I then barrowed a FS from a friend, and loved it! I went from having to work the trim and jack plate to non-stop to tap 57 MPH with the Power Tech, to literally point and shoot to 63 MPH with the Bravo. There's nothing wrong with Power Tech props, namely the OFX4. Your expectations need to be in line with what a prop of that era produces compared to newer prop designs. I find that the Bravo FS spools up faster, while providing better fuel burn at cruise. It's also faster....6+ mph in my case.

You mentioned running the jack plate up, not sure how far, but if your boat runs similar to mine, you wont run too far with it too high. And definitely not at any rate of speed that handling will be of concern. I idle with my plate up all the way. Anything above 4" will throw a buzzer at cruise speed. Something to consider for sure. With all that being said, the Bravo FS has been known to sling a blade. I have not experienced that, but some have.

I'm going to look for JEM's post about him switching to a Bravo 1 with his TE. I think around the same era as yours, no top.

I would like to try the Bravo FS 1 just not sure what pitch will work best.  I will also look to see if I can find JEM's post.  If someone has already found the right pitch in that prop for a 2200 XL that would be very helpful.  

The posts I have found so far with 2200 owners running the Bravo FS 1, they had flashed there SHO's so I couldn't figure out what pitch might work with a non-flashed SHO.    

From my research, I did see where some people had stated that the FS 1 wore down quicker than other props, meaning there peak performance fell off quicker and sooner than other models over time.  I had not seen anything specifically about throwing blades but it seems that all props models/manufacturers have some issues from time to time.

I learned quickly that my SHO did not like to run with the jack plate much higher than 3 as the water pressure started to fall off, and went to zero by 4.  Prior to this boat I had never used a jackplate so it has been a learning curve.  

Top speed is not my main priority as I don't spend much if any time running WOT but, if a prop exists that gives me good hole shot and the ability to have a higher top end when needed or wanted I am very interested.  I will keep researching this option and reach back out to Ken to see if he has a 20 pitch available to try out.      

 

[BradM]

JEM's post was buried in another thread. I looked for it, but could not find it. I'll look again when I have more time. JEM also mentioned having ran his Bravo on a friend's 24 with a 300 (I think) and the results were great! The wear issue with the FS-1 seems to come from the odd pitch numbers, as they are hand worked up from the lower sequential even number, i.e. a 22 becomes a 23 and a 24 becomes a 25. The human factor plays a big part in the variables there, and everything I've read, and discussed with Scott Reichow, of Merc. Racing, verifies the odd numbered props can be a gamble. 

I was running a Power Tech OFX4 in 20 pitch out to 5,700 RPM and went with a Bravo FS in 22 pitch and could run it out to 6,200. I picked up over 6 MPH with the swap and fuel economy also went up. Again, not knocking the Power Tech line of props, it just wasn't what I wanted. I can't tell you what you need or where you should start, especially with the expense of a non returnable prop (Prop God's will not allow the return of Merc. RACING props). The FS and XS series are the same, with exception to the size and qty. of vent holes, which you shouldn't need with an SHO. The XS (and FS) are known for their ability to carry a load nearly as well as when light/empty. I have found this to be true within 1-2 MPH.

I would venture to guess you could turn a Bravo FS in 22 pitch and get up near 6,000 RPM. I don't have one anymore or I would let you try it out. I don't have a video anymore, but hole shot on my HPS with the 22 was blistering! I'm talking 0-40 in 6-7 seconds. The GPS had a hard time computing that quickly and jumped several digits at a time. And, I can get up in 2' of water with it, although I wouldn't make it a habit.

[Sunstone]

Brad, you are not running the bravo fs anymore?  What are you running now?

[BradM]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:10 PM, Sunstone said:

Brad, you are not running the bravo fs anymore?  What are you running now?

Still a Bravo FS, just more pitch. 👍

[silverking]

A couple of updates to this thread.  I went fishing alone today so I was able to see how the OFX4 19 Pitch ran without a heavy load.  With just me, fishing gear and a full tank of gas I was able to turn 6100 RPM's.  However, max speed of 56.4 mph was made at 5900 RPM's with the motor trimmed down a little lower than it was at 6100.  I did not spend much time playing with WOT, I mainly just wanted to see what the RPM's were loaded light.  I probably could have squeezed out a little more speed if that had been my goal, but probably not much more.

The 19 pitch ran about .5 to .8 mph or so less than the RPM with the jackplate at around 2 and the motor trimmed up around 3 on the gauge.   

I ran 70 miles round trip today and burned 21 gallons of gas, yielding an average of 3.3 mpg.  My average cruise RPM was 4100. 

I also exchanged some emails with Ken from Propgods regarding renting a 20 pitch Bravo FS 1.  Ken said he does not stock anything less than the 22 pitch.  According to him the variability in quality control for that prop is too great for any of the pitches less than 22.  He said you might order one and it will run great but it is just as likely that it could run horribly.  He has not found them to be very consistent and therefore, does not stock them for rent in the smaller pitches.  I may keep an out for a used one.  JEM runs a 20 pitch on his 2200V.  

In the meantime I am happy with the OFX4 in 19 pitch.  It really has changed the way my boat performs in all facets compared to the prior 21 pitch I had.  The motor even seems to sound better overall when running.        

Edited June 30, 2019 by silverking

[HoneyB]

Speaking to the variability of props. I have read a lot on good prop, bad prop when taken out of the box. I experienced a bad prop when I paid to rent a 22 tempest plus from prop gods. Owning a 21 tempest plus and a couple of other mercury props I knew what to expect with the 22. it was no where close. I believe it was one of the afore mentioned " Bad Props" Not saying ken knew it when he sent it to me, just saying I have seen Good Prop Bad prop in real life.

As for the Bravo 1fs, I was told that all the bravo's are pretty close out of the box. When I asked the guy that is tuning my 22 pitch up how it looked, he said they all need the same thing. little of this, little of that, leading edge this, cup that. you know the lingo