Wardolb Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Ok so maybe I’m on to something or maybe I’m a complete idiot… it’s been several years since the master angler was last built. We all know that mbg was sold. Do you think the rights to models no longer in production went with the sell? Could someone take a MA splash the hull and start building new ones with no issues? Just thinking out loud here. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 I think it's a genius idea and would make one of the all-time greats (#1) on the MBG Forum Leader Board very happy! Seriously, if you reverse engineer a hull that's no longer in production and the molds don't exist anymore - and then make some original design "changes & improvements" of your own to the plug before you make a new mold, I think you're good to go. I would LOVE to be involved in such a project! Wish I was wealthy and retired, to have the time and funds to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardolb Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, geeviam said: I think it's a genius idea and would make one of the all-time greats (#1) on the MBG Forum Leader Board very happy! Seriously, if you reverse engineer a hull that's no longer in production and the molds don't exist anymore - and then make some original design "changes & improvements" of your own to the plug before you make a new mold, I think you're good to go. I would LOVE to be involved in such a project! Wish I was wealthy and retired, to have the time and funds to do it. I’ve always wanted to build boats. Now where’s a cheap MA with busted stringers or some other structural problems that don’t manifest themselves on the outside of the hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Wardolb said: I’ve always wanted to build boats Me too - for many years. 4 minutes ago, Wardolb said: Now where’s a cheap MA with busted stringers or some other structural problems that don’t manifest themselves on the outside of the hull That's a tall order, but anything's possible. Another option would be to scan a good hull into CAD. Then tweak the design on the computer (minimal changes). Then build a plug/mold using Chris Morejohn's methods. Microskiff.com is a great resource for the DIY boat builder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernWake Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 I think the MA is a desirable hull and has a cult like following. That being said if it was economically beneficial I bet MBG would be doing it. I don’t think the flats boat market is as a big segment as it seems to have been split into poling skiffs and bay boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 9 hours ago, SouthernWake said: I think the MA is a desirable hull and has a cult like following. That being said if it was economically beneficial I bet MBG would be doing it. I don’t think the flats boat market is as a big segment as it seems to have been split into poling skiffs and bay boats. If a boat company has a waiting list on build orders, as long as a year out for high-dollar Bay Boats, they could care less about selling mid-size flats boats at 1/3 the price. With Boat Show Specials on HPXs for sale at $94K and Bay Boats selling at well into 6 figure$, a new trend could be on its way. There's still a market for an affordable inshore fishing boat that can handle rough waters better than a technical poling skiff. The key word is [affordable]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardolb Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 10 hours ago, geeviam said: Me too - for many years. That's a tall order, but anything's possible. Another option would be to scan a good hull into CAD. Then tweak the design on the computer (minimal changes). Then build a plug/mold using Chris Morejohn's methods. Microskiff.com is a great resource for the DIY boat builder. I’ve been following Chris’s building blog for a while now I bought one of the first sets of plans for the conch fish 16, he was still living in the Bahamas at the time and it took forever to get my plans so he sent sent me a whipray line drawing also.. win/win. I moved and lost my building area and now the house I built doesn’t really have the room to build (no garage) I figured out how to make line drawings and convert them to a table of offsets with an engineering ruler. I’ve drawn up some pretty cool stuff mainly skiffs with Carolina flare since where I fish gets pretty snotty and theres lost of big water to cross. My issue there is I have no clue on stability or weights they just look pretty. Haha I feel like theres a market for affordable boats of any style. I get that theres overhead and profit to be made but theres no way its costs close to 90k to build a new 18hpx. Malibu definitely has some big money to recoup on their investment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernWake Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 I DO think a specialized restoration business for MAs and lappys would work. You could hold a few hatch/deck mold splashes and stringer templates and turn through the restorations. You could take on owner projects as well as buy rough boats, recondition and sell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, SouthernWake said: I DO think a specialized restoration business for MAs and lappys would work. You could hold a few hatch/deck mold splashes and stringer templates and turn through the restorations. You could take on owner projects as well as buy rough boats, recondition and sell. I have definitely thought of this too. Vs new builds in an overstuffed market and high start up and rigging expense, this might be the better alternative. Would take a savvy buyer if the hulls and a lot of space and time, but now you are appealing to an existing market and well trusted brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Don't they still make comparable skiffs? Such as the Egret? Have always heard that the Egret is a great shallow water boat that can handle some chop. Knowing where they are made and fishing that area in windy conditions, seems like they would be the perfect replacement for the MA line. Although that term of "affordable" may not apply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCTribute Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 hours ago, geeviam said: If a boat company has a waiting list on build orders, as long as a year out for high-dollar Bay Boats, they could care less about selling mid-size flats boats at 1/3 the price. With Boat Show Specials on HPXs for sale at $94K and Bay Boats selling at well into 6 figure$, a new trend could be on its way. There's still a market for an affordable inshore fishing boat that can handle rough waters better than a technical poling skiff. The key word is [affordable]. Why do you think building a MA will be any more affordable than any other boat made? Think this is where you have faulty logic, making and selling an MA at ‘1/3 the price’ is sure way to lose a bunch of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, NCTribute said: Why do you think building a MA will be any more affordable than any other boat made? I didn't say that 2 hours ago, NCTribute said: Think this is where you have faulty logic, making and selling an MA at ‘1/3 the price’ is sure way to lose a bunch of money. 1/3 the price of what? Your comment lacks clarity. My post was referring to a MA-class boat (i.e. Redfisher 18, since MAs aren't made anymore) that could sell for about 1/3 the price of a high-dollar Bay Boat. If a Pathfinder 2700 Open is listed for $260k at the St. Pete Boat Show this week, than my "1/3 the price" remark isn't far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Yep, Lots to making a skiff.....you have to make the plug, test it, make the new hull afterwards and then cap and hatches etc.....this is all hand work until you have the 1st design...it will not be cheap.....look at some of the smaller skiff companies.....Islamorda, Chittham, Drangonfly, etc....these are all $80-100K custom skiffs...and they are about a 1/3 of the weight in raw materials an 1/3 of the HP.... in the next few years....I predict once this huge inflation craziness and low interest rates leave...the flats boat market will be a flood with skiffs where people will be walking away from them and the market will crash....this might take 4-5 years....but, what is taking place now....is not sustainable....IMHO. I think the best bet, as mentioned above is going Refurb....you'll spend anywhere from $25-30K on hull and electrical upgrades....but, will have something about $30-50K less than new...that's what I did...working out so far. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCTribute Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, geeviam said: I didn't say that 1/3 the price of what? Your comment lacks clarity. My post was referring to a MA-class boat (i.e. Redfisher 18, since MAs aren't made anymore) that could sell for about 1/3 the price of a high-dollar Bay Boat. If a Pathfinder 2700 Open is listed for $260k at the St. Pete Boat Show this week, than my "1/3 the price" remark isn't far off. So a $87,000 MA is affordable? Not sure my comments are the ones lacking clarity. So either you make a high priced old design, or you make a lower priced old design that you will not make any money on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardolb Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 hours ago, NCTribute said: Why do you think building a MA will be any more affordable than any other boat made? Think this is where you have faulty logic, making and selling an MA at ‘1/3 the price’ is sure way to lose a bunch of money. I’m not talking about 1/3 of the price of anything else. But if you can build the molds needed and you’re at a 40-45k price point with somewhat low overhead… you’ll make money no doubt about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, NCTribute said: So a $87,000 MA is affordable? Not sure my comments are the ones lacking clarity. So either you make a high priced old design, or you make a lower priced old design that you will not make any money on. There are no new boats being built at current inflated prices that are affordable by my budget. I don't have to make anything, but if I did, it would be a new design - not an old design. And it would be priced reasonably, and I would still make money on the sale of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donh Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Have often wondered what the “out the door” cost is for one of these wonder skiffs is before manufacturer profit or margin . Any educated guesses? dh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 40 minutes ago, geeviam said: There are no new boats being built at current inflated prices that are affordable by my budget. I don't have to make anything, but if I did, it would be a new design - not an old design. And it would be priced reasonably, and I would still make money on the sale of it. Look up Ankona Skiffs - Ft Pierce.... He was the least cost skiff builder in the area and had a great following in his early days.... A lot of the younger fisherman could get into a skiff for $20-35K (his quality was not best in class), but, it was a new skiff, new small tohatsu motors, inexpensive trailers and you put 15% down and got bank financing....most of the younger kids could be in a boat for less than a car payment... Don't know where he is these days...but, Don H and I visited him about 7-8 years ago.... DC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Donh said: Have often wondered what the “out the door” cost is for one of these wonder skiffs is before manufacturer profit or margin . Any educated guesses? dh Uneducated WAG (wild guess). 50% of retail price That is only based on what I see in other sports/equipment. That doesn’t mean 50% profit, just means my guess is that it costs 50k to build a 100k boat. Dealer costs transport insurance profit, etc would drive the other 50%. Scott, feel free to eviscerate my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilemaker Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Back on the 80s that was close if not even closer to 60 profit. As a dealer 50 % profit on a boat does not nean 50 in his pocket. Overhead still has to be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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