Wanaflatsfish Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 She's got a 1995, original 2 smoker on the stern....never had an overheating problem until the last few outings.....I think it's because she sat for so long, but, that's just my theory....but, at 27 years old...she probably needs a good cleaning as she lived in the salt water of Flamingo in her previous life...... What's been completed so far....new water pump, new set of thermostats, new Popet Valve..... What's the symptoms ? Runs cool for anything under 4K rpms..once you move up to 4600-5K, the over heat alarm goes off... Spoke to my 5 star Yamaha Mech, John at Maximum and he said, "Yep, sounds like it's time to take off the water jackets and clean them out" He said it's normally a 3 hour fix, unless of course you break a bolt. I've got gaskets coming, have all the tools I need, torque wrench etc. and wanted to hear from anyone who has done this before or has pics / tips. key questions: 1.) Any tricks for not breaking off the bolts? Do you run the engine for a few min to heat up the head prior to loosing them ? I've watched about 1/2 dozen Youtube videos and it's pretty straight forward, so long as you torque in the correct order. I have a full Yamaha service manual.. Will attempt this weekend....any help or ideas appreciated....and, as John @ Maximum says laughing to me on the phone yesterday, "give it a go, and if you break a bolt, bring it on by, and I'll fix it up for you....happens to many people...so, I'm here for ya....have fun and good luck". Is he the best or what Fun Weekend Ahead DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyBottomBluz Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Nothing like investing in a facelift to bring the mistress back to life and now she's getting hot internally! I don't know about the water jackets and I am not a doctor BUT, it sounds like she is suffering from menopause! My brother-in-law who has been dealing with bolts on outboards for 40+ years has a method that works for him. He heats the bolt head with Oxy-acetylene or MAP gas and he spits on the bolt head and when the spit starts "dancing"/ boiling he attempts to back out the bolt. This tells him he has applied enough heat to attempt the removal but has not made it to hot to cause it to weaken and break. If it breaks lose he then tightens and loosens the bolt as he backs it out to prevent salt from building up in the threads during removal that will make it bind. By the way I just want to clarify this is only for bolts that are not breaking loose, not every bolt obviously. He still uses the tighten/loosen method for all the bolts when removing them to prevent the salt from binding them up. Good Luck! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I have used a product called rydlyme with success with the same issue. Took lower unit off connected a cut piece of water hose to the copper pick up, in the midsection, and the other end to a pond pump from harbor freight. Put pump in a five gallon bucked directly under the midsection and poured in 1 gallon of rydlyme to 1 gallon of water. I was amazed with how much sediment came out. Never had a overheat problem again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmanjj Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, GaFullCircle said: I have used a product called rydlyme with success with the same issue. Took lower unit off connected a cut piece of water hose to the copper pick up, in the midsection, and the other end to a pond pump from harbor freight. Put pump in a five gallon bucked directly under the midsection and poured in 1 gallon of rydlyme to 1 gallon of water. I was amazed with how much sediment came out. Never had a overheat problem again. That’s a good idea 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted July 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, GaFullCircle said: I have used a product called rydlyme with success with the same issue. Took lower unit off connected a cut piece of water hose to the copper pick up, in the midsection, and the other end to a pond pump from harbor freight. Put pump in a five gallon bucked directly under the midsection and poured in 1 gallon of rydlyme to 1 gallon of water. I was amazed with how much sediment came out. Never had a overheat problem again. Yes, I've read about this and have seen the videos....depends on how much build up apparently.... dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lap it Up Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 I've done this on a few V4 Yamahas. Diluted muratic acid works like a charm. Start with the jacket covers on the heads. That's where i found the most build up. Definitely work the bolts in and out like Muddy described and NO DEWALTS! LOL. Hand tools and patience only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Breakin bolts ! Ugggggggg Let me know , if you break any . Easy fix ! 😛 🇺🇸🏴☠️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted July 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 45 minutes ago, THE OUTLAW said: Breakin bolts ! Ugggggggg Let me know , if you break any . Easy fix ! 😛 🇺🇸🏴☠️ I nose where U live thanks....hopefully we won't need it....BTW, John @ Maximum says hello. dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Deep Creep is a great product for penetrating and disolving corrosion before removing bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 APSA-80 is an excellent product used in Agriculture as an adjuvent to reduce surface tension between water and the plants and soil. Sounds like weird science, but It makes water wetter! Farmers also use APSA-80 to clean and flush their spraying equipment, which protects against corrosion and keeps the nozzles from clogging. I add a very small amount of APSA-80 to the water when I flush my outboard, and have seen improvement in the pee stream after using it. It would probably increase the effectiveness of Salt Away too, but I haven't tried that yet. Here are some highlights from the brochure (and a link below to the entire brochure). It's an Amway product, so if you know an Amway Rep, ask them for a good price, if you care to try it: https://sitzagnutrients.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/APSA-80-Brochure-1-1.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallowminded6 Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, geeviam said: APSA-80 is an excellent product used in Agriculture as an adjuvent to reduce surface tension between water and the plants and soil. Sounds like weird science, but It makes water wetter! Farmers also use APSA-80 to clean and flush their spraying equipment, which protects against corrosion and keeps the nozzles from clogging. I add a very small amount of APSA-80 to the water when I flush my outboard, and have seen improvement in the pee stream after using it. It would probably increase the effectiveness of Salt Away too, but I haven't tried that yet. Here are some highlights from the brochure (and a link below to the entire brochure). It's an Amway product, so if you know an Amway Rep, ask them for a good price, if you care to try it: https://sitzagnutrients.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/APSA-80-Brochure-1-1.pdf Can use dish soap to do the same, decreases surface tension. Not sure if the APSA-80 has other qualities along with it, ie. not being sticky after drying. But dish soap has very similar properties and is cheap. Be careful of muratic acid and the chemical cleaners, I am not sure if it helped my engine jacket along to corroding thru to the cylinder or not. But it was about 1 year after doing this trick my motor decided to go. I have a hunch it didnt do well with the alluminum that had the coating worn thru from age and a previous cleaning. Removing, cleaning, and possibly coating would be my suggestion personally. Removal of jackets can be tough or easy its a crap shoot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Shallowminded6 said: Can use dish soap to do the same, decreases surface tension. Not sure if the APSA-80 has other qualities along with it, ie. not being sticky after drying. But dish soap has very similar properties and is cheap. A tiny bit APSA-80 does make a lot of bubbles when I flush the motor with it. Dish soap in the motor flush water is a good idea too, and is cheaper, but does not have the same corrosion protection properties as APSA-80. It's just a suggestion though. If there's a rush to buy this sh**, and it becomes out of stock or back ordered, like most things boating lately - then this post was a mistake, hahahaha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyBottomBluz Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Anytime you can avoid going into the engine, even if it is water jackets, on a 27 year old motor, do it. I would definitely try chemical alternatives for flushing the cooling jackets first. Go into it as a last resort. I am not a Yamaha guy but in the engines I have worked on have rubber deflectors directing water flow in the jackets, will the chemical flushes mentioned have an impact on them, IF they have em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, geeviam said: Deep Creep is a great product for penetrating and disolving corrosion before removing bolts. Man ... That would be a great boat name ! 🇺🇸🏴☠️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, MuddyBottomBluz said: I am not a Yamaha guy but in the engines I have worked on have rubber deflectors directing water flow in the jackets, will the chemical flushes mention have an impact on them, IF they have em? Here is a link to the MSDS. Looks like there is no warning about contact with rubber. However, APSA-80 is listed as hazardous and combustible. You wouldn't want to soak your hands in it like dish soap! APSA-80 Material Safety Data Sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 You wouldn't want to soak your hands in it like dish soap! Funny, my dad works for a fertilizer company and makes wetting agents. As a kid he would bring some home and call it a kid cleaner. I would have to wash in that stuff before walking into the house. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Geeviam, That is a great idea to use that stuff IMHO. Being a golf superintendent for 20+ years i have use my fair share of wetting agents, surfactants, and sticker. My guess is most would do a good job of softening the buildup enough for it to be able to be flushed. Dish soap would work but probably not to the degree as others. Surfactants, depending on which type, with be 75% or so active ingredients. Soap is less and what they add is fluff like perfume and what not. A tiny bit APSA-80 does make a lot of bubbles when I flush the motor with it If you get too many bubbles you can add so defoamer to fix that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, mulligan said: You wouldn't want to soak your hands in it like dish soap! Funny, my dad works for a fertilizer company and makes wetting agents. As a kid he would bring some home and call it a kid cleaner. I would have to wash in that stuff before walking into the house. Ha! The things our parents thought were perfectly fine to wash with and feed us... Oh well, we survived... My dad worked for Dupont and Dow, and there's no telling what he was exposed to. He worked with plenty of Asbestos too, smoked cigs for 40+ years, and drank gin martinis. He's still active, goes camping, and is mentally sharp as a tack at age 85! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, mulligan said: Surfactants, depending on which type, with be 75% or so active ingredients Thanks Mulligan. You've worked with these products for many years, so you know way more about it than I do. I think the thing that makes APSA-80 worth trying, is that it contains a small amount of so-called tall oil or fatty acids. I'm guessing that after it cleans the passageways, it leaves a thin coating of the fatty acids on all the metal surfaces for added corrosion protection. If the AG guys swear by it, for cleaning and maintaining chemical spray pumps - why wouldn't it be good for an outboard cooling system, to breakup and prevent salt buildup and corrosion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donh Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Watched a video describing cooling water flow in a 2 stoke Yamaha. What was interesting to me was that a strong pee stream only indicates the water pump is working because of the path the cooling water takes. It’s no reflection on the motor cooling. dh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Yes a spreader/sticker has fatty acids to stick to the plant and protect the product you are putting out from the rain and what not. I have honestly never thought about it to protect the inside of the pumps. I do know that the stuff that goes through the pump is way more corrosive than saltwater and we have not had any corrosion problems with our sprayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lap it Up Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Donh said: Watched a video describing cooling water flow in a 2 stoke Yamaha. What was interesting to me was that a strong pee stream only indicates the water pump is working because of the path the cooling water takes. It’s no reflection on the motor cooling. dh This is exactly true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lap it Up Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Shallowminded6 said: Be careful of muratic acid and the chemical cleaners, You are correct. Muratic acid can "clean" the white aluminum corrosion along with the scale build up. But if you have that much corrosion to begin with it is time to replace the block / heads. No different then an radiator flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Since I hear it is a years wait , ......... Only live once . 😬 🇺🇸🏴☠️ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Love the SHO 115! But, is there a year's wait for the new DF115BG? Just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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