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why is it legal for guides to not follow same rules


dabear

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 Fishing guides by law do not have to follow the same rules as a non licensed fisherman .  It is very hard for anyone that I have had this conversation with to justify why a licensed fishing guide does not have to run slow in the same area that a non licensed fisherman has to follow the posted slow speed sign . Does someone think a guides prop doesn’t damage the bottom or a manatee ?   The areas that I fish  have way more guides fishing it than non guides , I don’t understand why it’s ok for one boat to run a area and another has to idle in that same area . I also have a question about home owners cutting back and removing mangroves . Is it legal to remove mangroves that protect the land and sea life ?   I don’t mind following rules that help protect the areas we fish and the wild life in those areas . I do have a problem when we all are not treated equal and we all don’t have to follow the rules that are made to protect these areas .    If we all share the water why don’t we all have the same rules ?  

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I was not aware of that Joe, but I'm not surprised.  When rules and laws do not apply equally for all citizens, or there is a double standard in enforcement of the law, based on "who you are" or "which class or group you fall under" - good, law abiding citizens become bitter and begin to care less about following the rules.  If not corrected, things can get ugly and you eventually have lawlessness and chaos.  Sometimes it seems as if chaos is the means to the goal - for some anyway.

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That's outrageous.  Did you see a reg or a law that allows that?  It would probably be unconstitutional under the equal protection clause.  I've seen guides and commercials wide open in protected areas like mosquito lagoon but just figured FWC wasn't around.

I know that you can get a permit to trim or even remove mangroves, but it costs $$ and may require buying mitigation.

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Guides must follow the same rules as the rest of us, period. But I see it all the time not being followed. See many guides pull right up to other boats fishing an area, but god forbid you do it to them including running wot right where your fishing. Not say at all that all guides do it by any means. I even had one guide tell me to move because I was in his spot when he came up to me, lol. I did call his boss as I knew him, was not pleased.

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I will let you guys research this as I have discussed it on here before. There was an exemption clause put in place for the commercial netters and crabbers to allow on plane operation in some slow zones. Some of the guides caught on to it and pushed for the same reason as the crabbers to allow them to make a living without being regulated to the slow speed areas which they complained access was to time consuming to perform their work.

 

Cockroach Bay was a hot bed for this discussion. I am not sure if the permits are even still available but they were. I actually voted against these exemptions because I felt it would be confusing to the general public as well as unfair. And yes, there are several guides in debear's area that the FGA received enough complaints about boat operations that their memberships were terminated.

 

As for mangroves, they allow trimming in some areas if permits are applied for.

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I see more and more very productive mangroves being trimmed back so far they no longer protect the land and have very little cover and concealment for the fish . I guess this is all part the part of progress that changes what I use to call a peaceful swamp into a hi dollar wet land area . I sure miss the swamp . Capt Troy thankyou for sharing your time and knowledge it is always a pleasure when forum members try to help people and answer questions . 

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This is news to me, gang. My guide buddies and I follow the same rules that apply to operators of all vessels. If you see a guide, or anyone else doing something stupid, get their hull number and report them to FWC! Obviously this does not apply to jetskiers, as everything they do is pretty much stupid... 

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Joe,

 

The DEP is the oversight for mangroves and they have a world of do's and do not.

Had an area by me where a bunch of million dollar homes started trimming away and got a little crazy with it. They got in a world of Poo Poo.

 

Homeowners are exempt to trim their mangroves when the mangroves are in a Riparian Mangrove Fringe and are no more than 10 feet in height; so long as the homeowner does not trim the mangroves below 6 feet in height and does not defoliate any mangrove. If the mangroves are more than 10 feet in height, the homeowner will need to hire a PMT, but they still may be exempt. If the mangroves are not considered to be in a RMF, the homeowner will need to get a permit and a PMT. For more information about permitting requirements for mangrove trimming, please see our YouTube video, April 2015 FDEP Mangrove Webinar, or contact your district office.

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1 hour ago, dabear said:

Fin -addict e mail Florida guide association and ask them or ask the guide on this forum I did . They do not have to follow the slow speed zone area if they have a paying customer in the boat they can run 25 MPH in a slow zone . Ask Capt Troy on our forum .  I have asked several guides on the forum and in my area plus I did E mail the FGA and ask this question . Not sure why you wrote they have to follow the same rules please contact the Capt Troy and the guide association 

My wrong sorry, if 25 is ok fine. But 25+ to wot not. Still do not agree that they can run above the rest of us. Do Uber or taxi drivers have the right to drive above the posted speed limits because they have paying customers. Would like this explained to me. Thank you CT, read your post. Netters/Crabbers oh well !!! Like any other commercial vehicles should have to follow laws, time is money to all. 

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5 hours ago, brew1891 said:

Thanks for that post.

When you have only 800 officers to patrol and protect this state from the FWC side you really have to be doing something dumb to get an on water interaction.

Those 800 sworn officers are tasked with millions of miles of land and sea to protect and patrol.

I'm gonna start posting the FWC weekly reports again for all of your to read in the general forum.

 

I suggest you read them and understand that what you see everyday may be the least of their worries.

 

It's really a sad state of affairs.

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Hillsborough is not listed in that article but it is a fact that in little cockroach bay they are exempt from the idle zone . This area has been being investigated for over two years that I know of and one of the many changes that are being suggested to help stop destroying this area is to no longer allowed fishing guides to be exempt from the speed laws . If you fish this area or just care about it please tell every boater you know to take care of it . Here is a copy about this area in this you can see that so far the guides are exempt from having to idle in this area . I hope they make it a troll and pole zone and do away with letting most of the traffic which are guides run the area legally at 20 mph , most of there tower boats won’t float in that area at 20 with out bumping the bottom that’s why you can see them at speed during the week daily . This is a great area and we need to stop destroying it . http://baysoundings.com/legacy-archives/summer09/Stories/CockroachBay.php

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9 minutes ago, dabear said:

Hillsborough is not listed in that article but it is a fact that in little cockroach bay they are exempt from the idle zone . This area has been being investigated for over two years that I know of and one of the many changes that are being suggested to help stop destroying this area is to no longer allowed fishing guides to be exempt from the speed laws . If you fish this area or just care about it please tell every boater you know to take care of it . Here is a copy about this area in this you can see that so far the guides are exempt from having to idle in this area . I hope they make it a troll and pole zone and do away with letting most of the traffic which are guides run the area legally at 20 mph , most of there tower boats won’t float in that area at 20 with out bumping the bottom that’s why you can see them at speed during the week daily . This is a great area and we need to stop destroying it . http://baysoundings.com/legacy-archives/summer09/Stories/CockroachBay.php

This is true and the shoreline buzzing needs to stop. It has ruined many a area.

My area has Caladesi and Honeymoon NMZ. They are the few places there are settled fish anymore on the so called nature coast.

 

Areas north of me are all full of rocks and are now getting beat daily by tunnel craft with towers that run in spit. They have just about beat all that down.

Sad.

 

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