Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
FINCHASER

Input needed....1/2 ton towing the larger Pathys

Recommended Posts

Anybody with a TV knows a Tundra will tow a space shuttle so the brakes are the key in this equation. If the 1/2 ton brakes are your concern (that would be my only concern) consider installing electric over hydraulic brakes on the trailer. Assuming you maintain the trailer brakes this would be the route I would go if I wanted to keep the 1/2 ton. They are truly amazing when compared to surge brakes and you can basically stop the truck with trailer once you set up the controller in the cab. With surge brakes you have to wait for the trailer to start pushing the truck before they actuate, leading to many ran thru red lights at a minimum. Back when I was cool I used to tow a Contender 36 open all over the place doing the SKA trail, the electric brakes saved my butt more than once. 

https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Actuator/Hydrastar/HBA16.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've towed skiffs & bay boats many thousands of miles with the following vehicles: Sequoia, Tundra, Excursion, 2500 Chevy HD, F150. The Excursion & 2500 Chevy were the only two vehicles that could effectively stop while towing the bay boat on wet roads. My Sequoia, Tundra & F150 brakes worked fine with my skiff behind me on a wet road but not so much with a bay boat. I would never trust towing a bay boat regularly on the highway with a light duty truck or SUV. Just my opinion! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, conocean said:

I've towed skiffs & bay boats many thousands of miles with the following vehicles: Sequoia, Tundra, Excursion, 2500 Chevy HD, F150. The Excursion & 2500 Chevy were the only two vehicles that could effectively stop while towing the bay boat on wet roads. My Sequoia, Tundra & F150 brakes worked fine with my skiff behind me on a wet road but not so much with a bay boat. I would never trust towing a bay boat regularly on the highway with a light duty truck or SUV. Just my opinion! 

Ok, just have to ask. Since the vehicles you prefer only weigh about 400 lbs more than a light truck, how are they so much better on wet roads? Physics do not support your claim. The tires used on truck/trailer, brake pads and trailer brakes will have a much greater affect. Take over the road trucks for example, the truck itself is dramatically out weighed by the trailer, so the trailer brakes is what stops them. Overall length of wheel base helps them keep going straight.

Too many urban myths on light duty versus HD, they pull better and can carry heavier loads, but do not stop any better. Coefficient of friction, area of contact and weight determine stopping distance for a given speed, assuming the brakes can lock the wheel. ABS will keep the coefficient friction in the static range, rather than the dynamic range. The brake systems and the tires are very similar, and the weight difference between a light duty truck and a HD is only 5-8%, which will not make a noticeable difference.

Most likely you think it stops better because you have a preconceived notion it does, but actual test data will show it does not. I have been designing drivelines and and doing testing for almost 35 years now, not my first rodeo on this subject.

Don’t just take my word, read this. https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-ton-three-quarter-ton/

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's very interesting NCTribute!

Maybe I made it up in my mind but it sure seemed like I was able to stop a 22' Pathy behind my Excursion & 2500 Chevy a lot easier than my light duty trucks on all road conditions. Also, until I just thought about this further, the 22' Pathy trailer had brakes whereas my skiff trailers did not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, conocean said:

That's very interesting NCTribute!

Maybe I made it up in my mind but it sure seemed like I was able to stop a 22' Pathy behind my Excursion & 2500 Chevy a lot easier than my light duty trucks on all road conditions. Also, until I just thought about this further, the 22' Pathy trailer had brakes whereas my skiff trailers did not. 

Could be a variety of things, maybe the stiffer suspension caused less pitch, so the sensation of stopping is different. Run into it all the time where operators tell me something is happening during testing and data shows something different. Tactile input can interesting. If you have ever been at an amusement park and watched one of the movies where you are sitting in a chair, yet feel like you are falling, accelerating, bouncing around etc. What you think is happening really is not happening.

Hopefully I did not come across too strongly, not trying call anyone out, just trying to explain things. But Engineers have never had a reputation of being subtle. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, NCTribute said:

But Engineers have never had a reputation of being subtle. 

You're not kidding. It was the Army Corps of Engineers who tried drying out the Everglades!! (duhhh….) 

All good, thanks for the info. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, NCTribute said:

Could be a variety of things, maybe the stiffer suspension caused less pitch, so the sensation of stopping is different. Run into it all the time where operators tell me something is happening during testing and data shows something different. Tactile input can interesting. If you have ever been at an amusement park and watched one of the movies where you are sitting in a chair, yet feel like you are falling, accelerating, bouncing around etc. What you think is happening really is not happening.

Hopefully I did not come across too strongly, not trying call anyone out, just trying to explain things. But Engineers have never had a reputation of being subtle. 

One thing not taken into consideration is the exhaust brake on the modern diesels. Combine the three; trailer brakes, exhaust brake (working with the tow / haul function) and the HD truck, they will stop faster / better. I'm not an engineer but I do manage a fleet of trucks, in our construction company; just real life experience.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, SWilson said:

One thing not taken into consideration is the exhaust brake on the modern diesels. Combine the three; trailer brakes, exhaust brake (working with the tow / haul function) and the HD truck, they will stop faster / better. I'm not an engineer but I do manage a fleet of trucks, in our construction company; just real life experience.  

Yes, exhaust brakes are helpful, but not all HD trucks are diesel. You can also get, or install, an exhaust brake on a light duty diesel truck. So it is not a light duty versus HD statement, it is a gas versus diesel statement. Also exhaust brakes work great for long downhill type situations where heat and brake fade due to glazing are an issue, but not that much help in a panic stop situation. Exhaust brakes are also known for reducing maintenance costs associated with high wear items in brake systems.

At the end of the day, if the service brake has the capacity to lock the wheels up, any additional braking by an engine brake gains you nothing in a panic stop. Once you reach the coefficient of friction, having additional retarding force does nothing.

Still stand by my statement, and have provided links to back it, that HD truck in of itself does not provide better stopping performance than a light duty truck. Perfectly willing to reconsider if someone can show results, rather than opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either will do, it’s just a matter of whether or not you want the added cost of a diesel. More oil, more maintenance, more expensive fuel. I’ve had both; loved the diesels, but hated all the maintenance. I’m back in a 1500 now and if I end up with a 22 Pathfinder again I’ll keep the 1/2 ton. 

If I did long distances frequently I’d go 2500/F250 if just bouncing around town for short runs, 1500 all day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a trained pro here but a F150 with Ecoboost and the Max Tow Pkg is pretty close to a3/4 ton truck that costs alot less.

Tows up to 13,200 lbs same as a 250 with no max tow pkg .

Exhaust brake

Bigger rotors

Tranny cooler

oil cooler

bigger radiator

 

beefier suspension

bigger gas tank

mirrors

rear diff lock

prolly a few more things

minus the goat piss .

Best $ 3400  upgrade goin.

Just my own .02$

Gettin ready too back down the ramp now .

🇺🇸☠️

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NCTribute said:

Yes, exhaust brakes are helpful, but not all HD trucks are diesel. You can also get, or install, an exhaust brake on a light duty diesel truck. So it is not a light duty versus HD statement, it is a gas versus diesel statement. Also exhaust brakes work great for long downhill type situations where heat and brake fade due to glazing are an issue, but not that much help in a panic stop situation. Exhaust brakes are also known for reducing maintenance costs associated with high wear items in brake systems.

At the end of the day, if the service brake has the capacity to lock the wheels up, any additional braking by an engine brake gains you nothing in a panic stop. Once you reach the coefficient of friction, having additional retarding force does nothing.

Still stand by my statement, and have provided links to back it, that HD truck in of itself does not provide better stopping performance than a light duty truck. Perfectly willing to reconsider if someone can show results, rather than opinions.

Just discussing, not arguing... I can load a total of 18,700 (trailer and load) on my HD "Diesel" and tow it safely / stop safely, even in an emergency stop situation, can a 1/2 ton or a Tundra do that? Ok so let's reduce the load... I guess loaded, my 2300 weighs 5 - 6k (just a guess). With brakes on the trailer (brake per wheel - 4), the 1/2 ton truck will stop the same or better as an HD "Diesel". I find that hard to believe. I know my old F150 had nowhere near the braking power and it pulled 6k like crap.  

I'll have to disagree about the exhaust brake. I'm in good ole flat Florida and they do make a huge difference, when used in conjunction with the Tow / Haul feature. The Ford exhaust brake works a little different than that of a Jake Brake on a semi tractor or crane. It's a single stage system that that works when you touch the brake. It does not retard when you let off the throttle.

I will always choose a HD Diesel to haul whatever needs hauling. All the links on the internet will never replace personal experience. At 50 years old, my butt has sat in a lot of trucks and towed a lot of equipment and boats.

Jason P, I love the Tundra commercials but some folks don't know that those Goldhofer trailers are self propelled...:D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, THE OUTLAW said:

Not a trained pro here but a F150 with Ecoboost and the Max Tow Pkg is pretty close to a3/4 ton truck that costs alot less.

Tows up to 13,200 lbs same as a 250 with no max tow pkg .

Exhaust brake

Bigger rotors

Tranny cooler

oil cooler

bigger radiator

 

beefier suspension

bigger gas tank

mirrors

rear diff lock

prolly a few more things

minus the goat piss .

Best $ 3400  upgrade goin.

Just my own .02$

Gettin ready too back down the ramp now .

🇺🇸☠️

 

Do you happen to have a gooseneck hitch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need

Dont think there are any 150 with that

kinda overkill.

🇺🇸☠️

Listen

I aint gonna get into a tit for tat .

Life is too short

Garmin /Simrad

Gas / Diesel

Tomatoe / Tomato .

Yall can have it too yourselves .

I gots feesh too catch .

PEACE !

🇺🇸☠️

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, THE OUTLAW said:

No need

Dont think there are any 150 with that

kinda overkill.

🇺🇸☠️

Dang! I seen a few F150's towing 5th wheel campers, white knuckles and all. I was hoping to see that eco - boost haul 13k on I - 95! I don't have a bumper pull trailer rated for that much weight, only 10K on a pintle hitch. That still would be interesting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, SWilson said:

Dang! I seen a few F150's towing 5th wheel campers, white knuckles and all. I was hoping to see that eco - boost haul 13k on I - 95! I don't have a bumper pull trailer rated for that much weight, only 10K on a pintle hitch. That still would be interesting...

Like I said I aimt no pro .

Class 4 hitch

OUTLAW OUT !

🇺🇸☠️

My post is directed to the original poster on some stats I had , not you .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, THE OUTLAW said:

Like I said I aimt no pro .

OUTLAW OUT !

🇺🇸☠️

Never doubted your statement. I'm very familiar with Ford's claims on tow capacity, since we have a fleet of them. Our F450's have a 32k capacity!!!! There is NO WAY I would let my guys pull that amount of weight. Heck, you're over the 26K GVW FDOT rule for CDL's.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...