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3 minutes ago, HoneyB said:

First thought was “that’s harsh”

I have learned that some people just can't handle the truth.  Sort of funny since they come to the Hull Truth to read.  But in many cases, the truth is harsh.  What is nice about this discussion is charts can be compared and the truth can be made totally obvious for all to see and opinion can be removed as a factor.  Now if someone wants to look at chart A that shows a path that sends boats directly into a flat and finds that just as good or better than Chart B that shows the area exactly correct showing the correct path that is up to them.  There are some people that do choose to ignore reality  or proven facts for their own reasons.  I don't quite understand that but it does happen all the time.  

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16 hours ago, Egrets Landing said:

Hope you run only in the bluewater.  Trying to use that navigate inshore with it would be pretty useless.

I run my 2200 PF with a Garmin 94 sv with Blue Chart G2 map. I have ran in severe fog where most people would not even take their boat off the trailer, very very low tides...before daylight and at dark, all along the Georgia and lower South Carolina Coast with no problems. 

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38 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said:

I have learned that some people just can't handle the truth.  Sort of funny since they come to the Hull Truth to read.  But in many cases, the truth is harsh.  What is nice about this discussion is charts can be compared and the truth can be made totally obvious for all to see and opinion can be removed as a factor.  Now if someone wants to look at chart A that shows a path that sends boats directly into a flat and finds that just as good or better than Chart B that shows the area exactly correct showing the correct path that is up to them.  There are some people that do choose to ignore reality  or proven facts for their own reasons.  I don't quite understand that but it does happen all the time.  

Hmmmmm.  I must be in the twilight zone because I didn't realize that I was in the "Hull Truth."   I can hear the Twilight Zone music ringing in my ears now.  That ain't funny!   Not even "sort of."  Now, you still haven't explained how I have run over half the Georgia coast, day and night, and still haven't banged a fixed marker or ran aground, due to my reliance on a Garmin "pretty useless" chart plotter.  Please explain the harsh truth of these proven facts. 

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34 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said:

I have learned that some people just can't handle the truth.  Sort of funny since they come to the Hull Truth to read.  But in many cases, the truth is harsh.  What is nice about this discussion is charts can be compared and the truth can be made totally obvious for all to see and opinion can be removed as a factor.  Now if someone wants to look at chart A that shows a path that sends boats directly into a flat and finds that just as good or better than Chart B that shows the area exactly correct showing the correct path that is up to them.  There are some people that do choose to ignore reality  or proven facts for their own reasons.  I don't quite understand that but it does happen all the time.  

Just gonna say .. again I find your writings rude. Telling someone they are buying a pos unit is uncalled for. I understand you are trying to educate all of us here but talking to people like there stupid uncalled for. 

I have had units other than Garmin that showed my boat way on the hill wile in back rivers. But I don’t go tell everyone that has one of those HDS units they have a pos. 

I have run Deadman’s bay one end to the other for years on several Garmin units and I find them to be pretty spot on. 

I am glad you know more than the general population about charting units .. but you don’t have to be a *.... *about it .

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I don't know how I make it back to the ramp every time I go out.  My Lowrance is not turned on 95% of the time and 4.5% of the other time it is on sonar or info.  Maybe I should look at my gps more and not what is around me.

Enjoy the new unit Fin.

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Sounds like there are some sensitive libs in here.   If you run in the ocean along the coast its not such a problem. It's deep for most areas running  a few hundred yards off a beach or outside an inlet along a coast.   If you are running inland through creeks and cuts, and flats and long expansive areas of shallow water with turns and obstacles such as rocks and pilings its a big problem for many areas. Perhaps your particular area is grade A.  I don't know how shallow you run or exactly where you run.   The OP runs FL and the chart is very poor for his area and even dangerous and the response was directed there and noted as it would relate to the Gulf Coast area for FL, LA etc.  It's particularly poor around Punta Gorda and areas south where he is.  Again, this is not a matter of opinion.  It is what it is an can be proven with absolute definitive side by side examples all over the place.  Missing bars, missing posts and local navigation features (thousands of them), missing signs, Incorrect marker and buoys, missing poll and troll areas. the list goes on and on.  Some people get used to that kind of thing and that is all they know and find it acceptable.  But its like running for a while a bad tires. You don't realize what it should be until you get new ones on.  That said, some people just are happy running on worn out tires and do consider them well more than sufficient for their own purpose.   

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HoneyB.. down in FL and GA and LA, there are literally hundreds of boaters who have posted on many blogs going back for quite a few years with the same issues with their Garmin charts as you experienced showing them running on land when they are floating in a channel somewhere or running a creek, canal or the like.  I don't know how many threads exactly I have seen over the years with a title that is something like "my garmin shows me on land" but its quite a few.  I am glad that you at least admit it happened to you too.  But why it is you would think its better to stay quiet than point out the problem proactively I don't know.  If you knew and didn't tell me that is sort of lying by omission in my book.  I would rather have someone tell me that could happen to me before I went and spent a bunch of money in that direction if there was a better option available that would avoid that problem.   

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2 minutes ago, HoneyB said:

Lol my experance was not with Garmin :)

I am not defending the brand any brand. I was just speaking to how you address people.

Check out this thread:

It really has little to do with the GPS itself. The machines are all about the same between the mfgs.  Spend 1500 with mfg. a vs. 1500 with mfg b its not any kind of substantive difference in what they can do.  The difference that matters is the charts that can run in it.  The machine is only as useful as the chart running in it.    The issue with the garmin is if you have that, that is all you get - a garmin controlled chart and if that doesn't work, you are out of luck.  This year, more than a thousand people will leave Garmin just because they want to run the chart referenced in the thread above.  That is the truth and many of those people were really pissed at themselves for not researching more or pissed at someone else who could have or should have advised better about the garmin chart issue such as their sales person, boat mfg. or whoever before they got the machine.

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26 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said:

Check out this thread:

It really has little to do with the GPS itself. The machines are all about the same between the mfgs.  Spend 1500 with mfg. a vs. 1500 with mfg b its not any kind of substantive difference in what they can do.  The difference that matters is the charts that can run in it.  The machine is only as useful as the chart running in it.    The issue with the garmin is if you have that, that is all you get - a garmin controlled chart and if that doesn't work, you are out of luck.  This year, more than a thousand people will leave Garmin just because they want to run the chart referenced in the thread above.  That is the truth and many of those people were really pissed at themselves for not researching more or pissed at someone else who could have or should have advised better about the garmin chart issue such as their sales person, boat mfg. or whoever before they got the machine.

The thing is, egret, you haven't educated anybody in here with anything.  In fact, believe it or not, you aren't any smarter or more experienced than any of the posters on this thread.  I will be willing to bet I have more hours on the water than you, unless you are a professional guide or fisherman.  So for you to bust in on the MBG forum (oh, by the way, this is not The Hull Truth) on your second post and tell me that my Garmin MFD is useless.........

Well, let's put it this way.  It tells me a whole lot more about you than it informs me about my electronics.

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In Florida and Louisiana >>> ISLA

If you want to see how it compares to Navionics Plat+ (which is likely going to be similar to G3 since they merged the two together) and you have some time  you can watch this video below.  Its long but in keeping with the chart it is detailed.  In about 20 places the video stops and they put on the then latest version of the premium Garmin controlled chart.  Prepared to be shocked at the differences.  Particularly in challenging areas like the Everglades and SW FL.  There will be another video coming out shortly showing ISLA for LA vs. G3 and the other Garmin LA chart specifically.

 

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1 hour ago, Egrets Landing said:

Sounds like there are some sensitive libs in here.   If you run in the ocean along the coast its not such a problem. It's deep for most areas running  a few hundred yards off a beach or outside an inlet along a coast.   If you are running inland through creeks and cuts, and flats and long expansive areas of shallow water with turns and obstacles such as rocks and pilings its a big problem for many areas. Perhaps your particular area is grade A.  I don't know how shallow you run or exactly where you run.   The OP runs FL and the chart is very poor for his area and even dangerous and the response was directed there and noted as it would relate to the Gulf Coast area for FL, LA etc.  It's particularly poor around Punta Gorda and areas south where he is.  Again, this is not a matter of opinion.  It is what it is an can be proven with absolute definitive side by side examples all over the place.  Missing bars, missing posts and local navigation features (thousands of them), missing signs, Incorrect marker and buoys, missing poll and troll areas. the list goes on and on.  Some people get used to that kind of thing and that is all they know and find it acceptable.  But its like running for a while a bad tires. You don't realize what it should be until you get new ones on.  That said, some people just are happy running on worn out tires and do consider them well more than sufficient for their own purpose.   

I will give you credit for at least one truthful statement you made. 

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8 minutes ago, JEM said:

The thing is, egret, you haven't educated anybody in here with anything.  In fact, believe it or not, you aren't any smarter or more experienced than any of the posters on this thread.  I will be willing to bet I have more hours on the water than you, unless you are a professional guide or fisherman.  So for you to bust in on the MBG forum (oh, by the way, this is not The Hull Truth) on your second post and tell me that my Garmin MFD is useless.........

Well, let's put it this way.  It tells me a whole lot more about you than it informs me about my electronics.

It has nothing to do with the machine.  Its the chart running in it.  Once they fix that problem, you will be in much better shape and a happier boater. But until then, the machine stinks (at least if you run with it for most of the Gulf coast inshore) because it's only as useful as the chart running in it.  That is just the way it is.  It's the Mcdonalds of charting.   Low res imagery that goes fuzzy when zoomed when you need it and noaa features which are really poor inshore.  In some cases, that is all there is available for the area so you just have to make due with what you have.

If you want to run Plat + in that video shown above and think that is great and can get you around the everglades and crazy places like Homosassa or Steinhatchee, or Captiva, or Lower LA  at sunrise be prepared for a problem for sure.  But some people still do swear by it.  I have questioned some about it curious about their perspective.  I found they do finally have to admit, that when they need it, they aren't really using the chart itself to figure out where to run or how to get where they want but rather they run the trails they had previously laid down to follow or I find they run deep drafting boats and don't go into challenging areas so its never an issue for them.  

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2 hours ago, mulligan said:

I don't know how I make it back to the ramp every time I go out.  My Lowrance is not turned on 95% of the time and 4.5% of the other time it is on sonar or info.  Maybe I should look at my gps more and not what is around me.

Enjoy the new unit Fin.

Thanks, I will. Feel the same regarding looking around, lol. Have run entire Charlotte harbor night and day without a gps for years. Wonder how I did it and still around. TOO many people simply relied on gps.

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Going off topic, Ok all, I started this thread and now going to end it. G2 does lack some detail but far from being a POS as newbie stated. Like the Garmin BlueChart, Navionics and C-map better. Has more info as markers are numbered, g2 not. As stated Garmin is updating the g2 with Navionics mapping by next month with FREE update.

As far as the Newbe to me he is a Troll let him go back to the Hull Truth. We are all friends and family here and always will be giving insight and good advice when needed. Some times we don’t like what we hear but seldom rude or disrespectful to one another. Let this Troll go on with his rant, I for one will not be involved in this thread anymore.

I am sure in my 70 years I have spent/logged in more hours at the helm that he would ever think of doing. 13-85 footers, not bragging just the truth, so whatever he says is moot to me. You all enjoy and take care as always, fin 😃😃

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O k I'll throw in another  aspect not touched on that we can all talk about. 

The good ole government. 

All units are subject to info from satellites and rely on how many you are receiving . Even then the accuracy can be controlled  by the government.

You can run the same track and still be off several feet. Go to the same lat. Long. and be in a slightly different  spot.

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On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:22 PM, Egrets Landing said:

In Florida and Louisiana >>> ISLA

If you want to see how it compares to Navionics Plat+ (which is likely going to be similar to G3 since they merged the two together) and you have some time  you can watch this video below.  Its long but in keeping with the chart it is detailed.  In about 20 places the video stops and they put on the then latest version of the premium Garmin controlled chart.  Prepared to be shocked at the differences.  Particularly in challenging areas like the Everglades and SW FL.  There will be another video coming out shortly showing ISLA for LA vs. G3 and the other Garmin LA chart specifically.

 

Wow.  The clarity and detail is great!  I've run Garmin on every boat I have owned but this mapping definitely makes you think about switching.  I hope Garmin gets into the game soon. 

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Easy does it everyone. There are a few comments on this thread that are inferred and/or direct personal confrontations.  By all means discuss equipment and provide personal experiences with the equipment, but refrain from personal comments directed at the person due to their ownership of the equipment or lack there of. Thank you!!

MOD 2 Bubba 

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7 hours ago, Lap it Up said:

Wow.  The clarity and detail is great!  I've run Garmin on every boat I have owned but this mapping definitely makes you think about switching.  I hope Garmin gets into the game soon. 

Yeah. I get it.  About 3 people every day are losing their Garmin and switching platforms just to run those charts in the video above.  Obviously, in the opinion of those people, that says a lot about how inferior the Garmin controlled maps really are by comparison.   There are lots of people (particularly in the NE and bluewater boaters) that just don't know because general reference charts are all they have ever seen and without first hand experience are not able to appreciate the differences.  And obviously there are also some old timers that are just resistant to any change no matter what the differences may be and rarely accept change.  But nevertheless, many Garmin users who like their machines are willing to spend all of that money just for the other charts and they remove their Garmin equipment to make it happen.  For them, the charts are more important than the unit.  I dislike the Garmin charts and find them nearly useless and even dangerous for the challenging areas I go boating around FL because of the inaccuracies and thousands of missing details.  But I am just one of a very large group who feels that way.  Many hundreds of Garmin users are switching every year just for that chart in the video and that says a lot about what they think about the charts they have.   There will always be deniers and naysayers and people resistant to change but most of the time they only know what they know which often times is a bit lacking in some focused areas as is the case in this thread.   But that is what I find nice about blogs -you can learn some new info and get alternative perspectives.  Some may disagree with chart discussions and some even take offense if you think their chart is useless, but a detailed empirical examination can be made and the differences clearly demonstrated and where the differences are noteworthy, as they really are with the charts discussed above, if people are honest, all opinion is removed and the charts speak for themselves regardless of who may be offended.     

With respect to Garmin getting in the game as you say, it doesn't appear very likely as they do double down on the Garmin only paradigm every year continuing to relegate their customers to zero alternative chart options to Garmin.  

 

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15 hours ago, smilemaker said:

O k I'll throw in another  aspect not touched on that we can all talk about. 

The good ole government. 

All units are subject to info from satellites and rely on how many you are receiving . Even then the accuracy can be controlled  by the government.

You can run the same track and still be off several feet. Go to the same lat. Long. and be in a slightly different  spot.

That is probably true.  But I have never had that happen to me and I'm in the boat every week.  When I get back on the lift, the GPS shows me exactly on the lift to the foot and when I run through tight places, my gps shows me exactly where I am just like in the car.  I run a Simrad most of the time. Its remarkably accurate.   I am not concerned that all of a sudden the govt is going to alter sattelites to make the gps less accurate causing a lot of issues for people around the world.  The accuracy is too important for vehicle navigation which requires very high accuracy.  All of the car navigation systems let alone boaters would be a real mess if that happened. 

But I have seen lots of photos that people post of their gps showing them off of where they say they actually are so their unit shows them on land when they are in a creek etc and there are plenty of complaints about it.  In most cases, I think it is the MAP running in the machine as opposed to the machine.  My machine has been perfectly accurate for years.  That said, you do need to have your WAAS turned on or it could show you up to 30' off of actual in some cases and I think there are lots of people that are running around that have no idea what WAAS is let alone have it switched on in their GPS.  For whatever reason, mfgs ship the units with the WAAS defaulted to OFF.  If you have not turned your WAAS on before, it's probably off and the GPS is less accurate than it could be.

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I know who egrets landing is, funny it seems like no one else on here does.  When it comes to mapping, or discussing GPS  screens, listen to what he says, he may just know what he's talking about. Here, in this forum he may be a newbie, but in the real world of boating he's revolutionized the way anglers fish in shore, similar to the power pole and trolling motor. All you guys should be thanking him rather than saying your more experienced than he is or upset that your Garmin screens are more like kids e-learning tablets than actual machines.

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Okay I just deleted several posts. The next action I take is delete the entire thread, which is unfortunate as there was a potion of the thread that was informative. Both Moderators and the administration has recorded the names who appear to be instigating the "heated debate" and will take appropriate action if the issues continue. PLEASE refrain from direct or veiled negative personal comments on other members. (EXAMPLES: Indicating a members equipment is useless! Posting negative memes towards other members! Veiled negative comments towards other members.) 

If you wish to have a personal discussion you are welcome to utilize the private message function or a venue off the Forum.  Thank you!! 

MODERATOR 2

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