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BradM

Nizpro Tune // 250 SHO

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Makes about as much sense as modifying a 2018 F-250 diesel. Delete all the emissions on a truck that many engineers have developed to get what they get out of it. Buy a 70 k truck, delete it and I will catch you at the next traffic light.

Cheat that to get What? A non EPA compliant, non warranty item that I wouldn't give you 10 cents on the dollar for.

 

And, I set right next to the Nizpro Yamaha 450 today on the back of David Gauses Boat. Seen it in action several times over the last few months. Does sound cool.

 

Play with this stuff a bit and you might want to look at what is called max hull speed for a fishing boat designed to do much more than go fast. Not even going to get into props, lower units and octane requirements.

 

Performance and efficiency are great. They come at a sacrifice to many different things. Not sure the focus of speed is really where this forums boat builder is right now.

The day that any after market add on comes along to meet all the requirements of manufacturing and warranty to turn 200 HP into 300 HP and back it all in for 5 years I'm all ears.

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:38 PM, justfish said:

I have a naive question. If it’s simply a computer tune why don’t manufacturers do this from the get go?  Surely they have the ability to or even buy the programming.  Then they could market a 320hp motor that’s the size and weight as 200 hp? 

I messed around with some of the tuning on my diesel truck as did a lot of my buddies. Maybe just coincidence, but it always seemed the wilder the tune, the more issues that truck had...

Never mind.  I saw my same answer on page two 

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Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions and giving great inside about what goes on.  I do have a question in regards to warranty or how Yamaha reads the ECU for a warranty claim.  If someone were to purchase a 4.2 of any HP rating and purchase the tune along with the hardware to flash it and return to stock if need be how does Yamaha see the ECU?  Do they see that it has been flashed and returned to stock or do they just read the stock numbers? Are error codes kept when it is returned to stock?  Could they see if it has been running at 6400 RPM?  Just wondering if for an extra $1k you can still have the tune AND warranty.

I currently do not have a SHO but if I were to drop $20k on a motor and have something major go wrong with a new motor it would hurt the checkbook.  Trust me I hear what you are saying about the why wait to have fun but it is a gamble. 

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Welcome to the forum and thanks for answering some of our many questions . Is it legal to modify a new outboard motor on a recreational boat ?  Most Yamaha motors have a extended warranty that is a lot longer than 36 months which means we would be giving up many years of warranty coverage for performance as you know these motors are no longer a few thousand dollars they cost some serious money.  In the past I have modified every boat I have had and years of modified stock cars , but I do not modify my street vehicles or my new boat motors because for emission reasons . Do you have to sign a waiver saying this motor will be use for racing only ? I am aware that Florida no longer test emissions but working in the antomotive field for over 30 years I also am aware that altering a  federal emission standard is not a great idea ask Volkswagen . I thought that outboards started to fall into the federal emission standards in 2010 , I am not as familiar with the outboard emission laws as the auto manufacturers but didn’t think you could up hp rating more than 10% of what the advertised HP was . Simmon it is really great getting answers about your product directly from you .  Thanks for your time and answers . 

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Thank you for joining Simon! You have shed more light on this subject than I was willing to based off our discussions and my general knowledge and experience, although automotive.

dabear, where are you located? In Florida, we do not have an emissions law or standard. No need to badge anything as non-compliant, although I do believe big rig tractors are to be clean idle certified if they leave them running for long periods of time while....idling.

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4 hours ago, dabear said:

Welcome to the forum and thanks for answering some of our many questions . Is it legal to modify a new outboard motor on a recreational boat ?  Most Yamaha motors have a extended warranty that is a lot longer than 36 months which means we would be giving up many years of warranty coverage for performance as you know these motors are no longer a few thousand dollars they cost some serious money.  In the past I have modified every boat I have had and years of modified stock cars , but I do not modify my street vehicles or my new boat motors because for emission reasons . Do you have to sign a waiver saying this motor will be use for racing only ? I am aware that Florida no longer test emissions but working in the antomotive field for over 30 years I also am aware that altering a  federal emission standard is not a great idea ask Volkswagen . I thought that outboards started to fall into the federal emission standards in 2010 , I am not as familiar with the outboard emission laws as the auto manufacturers but didn’t think you could up hp rating more than 10% of what the advertised HP was . Simmon it is really great getting answers about your product directly from you .  Thanks for your time and answers . 

Fairly simple answer about emissions.

 

"turning a 200 SHO or a 225 offshore into a 300 hp engine has zero impact in reliability, emissions or economy over buying a standard 300 hp engine from Yamaha in the first place".

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I thought that the outboards had to meet fuel flow and air flow calibrations and that was why the motors rated less HP where detuned to meet the Goverments standards  . I think 40 CFR 1065.220 was for testing fuel flow and 1065.225 was for testing air flow . I thought the lower HP motors where de-tuned to fall into the proper emission window for that HP . We could change these settings for test purposes only unless the manufacturer had a TSB or recall to recalibrate the ECU ,PCM , or BCU . Off road non emission cars you could get a adjustable piggy back computer and play with gas air exhaust ignition timing curves and base timing trans shift points because they did not have to meet any emission standards.  Glade the outboards don’t  have to fall into there advertised HP by 10% . Lap it Up thanks for your time and fairly simple answer . 

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36 minutes ago, dabear said:

I thought that the outboards had to meet fuel flow and air flow calibrations and that was why the motors rated less HP where detuned to meet the Goverments standards  . I think 40 CFR 1065.220 was for testing fuel flow and 1065.225 was for testing air flow . I thought the lower HP motors where de-tuned to fall into the proper emission window for that HP . We could change these settings for test purposes only unless the manufacturer had a TSB or recall to recalibrate the ECU ,PCM , or BCU . Glade the outboards no longer have to fall into there advertised HP by 10% . Lap it Up thanks for your time and fairly simple answer . 

The government puts that on the manufacturer of the engine, not the end user. Since everyone likes to talk about tuning diesels here.....It's not illegal to remove/bypass all the emissions stuff of a brand new diesel truck, if you're the owner of said truck.

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28 minutes ago, BradM said:

The government puts that on the manufacturer of the engine, not the end user. Since everyone likes to talk about tuning diesels here.....It's not illegal to remove/bypass all the emissions stuff of a brand new diesel truck, if you're the owner of said truck.

You may want to ask CAA and EPA about  DPF  and about anyone removing emissions from a car or truck that will be drove on public highway . CCA section 203 . Look up company’s that are being fined for selling kits to change diesel emissions . The company’s are trying to avoid breaking federal standards by only selling kits to race trucks and other trucks that the buyer says will not use these parts on public highways . I am not making this stuff up check it out . Ask if it is legal to modify or remove the emission system on your truck . 

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43 minutes ago, dabear said:

Ask if it is legal to modify or remove the emission system on your truck . 

My dad always told me "Its better to ask for forgiveness than permission!"  :D:D

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13 minutes ago, Lap it Up said:

My dad always told me "Its better to ask for forgiveness than permission!"  :D:D

Good answer I would never tell you not to do what your Dad suggest . If you get time look it up just for your own knowledge than listen to your Dad  . No need to keep going on this subject sometimes things get ugly and non productive. Have a great day .

 

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Thankyou for the positive comments.

All Yamaha diagnostic systems continue to function as per a standard Yamaha calibration. Below is a record log recorded from a Dead stock F-250 Yamaha V6.

In the first section , 3 Engine record , you can see the recorded Engine maximum speed, in this case a recorded value of 6300 rpm recorded when the engine had a hour count of 1727.7 hours. It also states this has occurred 36 times

 

3.Engine Record

         

Data Item

 

Result

Unit

Occurred

 

Engine speed (max.)

6300

r/min

1727.7

 

Over-rev. count

 

36

times

1727.7

 

Overheat count

 

0

times

0

 

Low oil pressure count

0

times

0

 

Knock control count

 

0

times

0

 

Rotor (FWM) replacement count

2

times

   

 

In the below section, Engine Operation hours according to engine speed you will notice the RPM operating hours is recorded in 1000 RPM increments.  It does not record the actually exact rpm for a given time. In other words if an engine runs at 6001 rpm it records this in the 6000 to 7000 rpm section. If you now go back to the top table you can clearly see a standard engine is capable of 6300 rpm, Wether this be due to over rpm when the boat leaves the water and free revs or simply because you are a little under prop’d it is absolutely capable of exceeding 6000rpm in standard form.

 

5.Data Logger [Engine operating hours according to engine speed]

Engine speed

Time[h]

 

- 1000 r/min

975

 

1000 - 2000 r/min

192.9

 

2000 - 3000 r/min

13

 

3000 - 4000 r/min

217.2

 

4000 - 5000 r/min

378.3

 

5000 - 6000 r/min

19.6

 

6000 - 7000 r/min

0.1

 

Engine operating hours

1796

 

 

 

The standard Yamaha ECU Calibration only cuts all cylinders from spark and fuel over 6450 rpm so it is very easy to record engine speeds of 6500 rpm  in stock engines.

The below recorded Data is a Nizpro 450s Supercharged engine running a 6400 rpm limiter

 

1.Data Logger [Engine operating hours according to engine speed]

   

Engine speed

Time  [h]

 

- 1000 r/min

453.2

 

1000 - 2000 r/min

143.5

 

2000 - 3000 r/min

30.4

 

3000 - 4000 r/min

103.9

 

4000 - 5000 r/min

221.8

 

5000 - 6000 r/min

65.2

 

6000 - 7000 r/min

0.4

 

Total hours of operation

1018

 

 

6.Engine Record

     

Data Item

     

Engine speed (max.)

 

6492

806.2

Over-rev. count

 

4

838.2

 

 

 

 

     

Above we have a maximum recorded rpm of 6492 and a total of 4 times. These recorded values are still very similar to what the stock F-250 recorded data is. Although the engines have massive changes within the calibration.  No red flags here!!! 

We can also offer tunes that have factory stock rpm Limits starting at 6200 rpm. This is the beginning of the standard limiter and when cylinder # 2 only has spark and fuel cut, other cylinder are then cut one at a time until all are cut at 6450 rpm.

At Yamaha dealer level this is the information that is able to be read using the YDS diagnostic system along with the last 19 minutes of engine operation. .  Of course Yamaha have not taken me though what that can and cannot see within the file at programming level.

 

 

 

Emissions:

Unlike motor vehicles when it is possible to disconnect or remove emission hardware as mentioned in above  posts this is not the case with outboards, we are not removing catalytic converters, DPF filters or modifying any mechanical components. This is not to say ECU calibration does not play a massive role in emissions output. 

Unlike motor vehicles, taking an exhaust gas sample is very complex in comparison to a motor vehicle as outboards have a constant stream or water being mixed with the exhaust gas so doing this cannot happen at your local boat ramp.

However customers can certainly request a standard 250 SHO or F300 file be flashed into their ECU if they owner a smaller Hp version. At this point they comply to all relevant regulations as per a Standard Yamaha calibration file.

Emission regulation are constructed around mass of pollutants per Kilowatt / Hp Per hour. [g/kW-hr] So we are not limited by HP rating but by the amount of emissions generated per hp per hour.  By engineering reasoning  the higher hp re-flash would only effect emission at points within the calibration that have been modified from standard. From our own testing, the emissions  generated from our 450s Supercharger kit are less than that of a standard F300 engine per hp. 

 

As seen in the below information.

Reference - Section 1045.107 Emission limits – “Not to Exceed Limits”

For each engine configuration, evaluate the NTE limits using table 1 of 1045.103 and 2 of §1045.107. For example, for

Yamaha 300 HP: P = 450 [HP], P = 336 [KW]

then the following Not To Exceed Standard (NTE) limits apply to each family:

Pollutant

Subzone 1 [g/kW-hr]

Subzone 2 [g/kW-hr]

HC + NOX

22.33

25.52

CO

450

450 *

Table 2 - NTE Limits - smallest engine in family 336 [KW]

 

Nizpro has since the mid 1990’s taken emissions very seriously, we were, if not the very first one of the very first companies in Australia to have our power upgraded modified vehicles fully emissions tested and complied, meeting full Australian Design Rules ( ADR ).

 

Hope the above further answers your questions.

 

Thanks again.

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5 hours ago, BradM said:

The government puts that on the manufacturer of the engine, not the end user. Since everyone likes to talk about tuning diesels here.....It's not illegal to remove/bypass all the emissions stuff of a brand new diesel truck, if you're the owner of said truck.

Gonna call BS on this to some degree.

I have owned several 2011 and newer 6.7 diesel trucks and a ton of them since 1985 when they were the 6.5 IH. Traded, sold and maintained a fleet of them.

I just traded one and had to sign a piece of paper stating the emissions had not been modified to any degree. I shopped around my trade and not a single dealer did not ask if the truck had been deleted. They won't touch one deleted.

 

I could go on for days to try to explain why My 21 MA with a 250 SHO converted to a 450 HP engine is a bad idea.

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5 minutes ago, Simon@ Nizpro Marine said:

Thankyou for the positive comments.

All Yamaha diagnostic systems continue to function as per a standard Yamaha calibration. Below is a record log recorded from a Dead stock F-250 Yamaha V6.

In the first section , 3 Engine record , you can see the recorded Engine maximum speed, in this case a recorded value of 6300 rpm recorded when the engine had a hour count of 1727.7 hours. It also states this has occurred 36 times

 

3.Engine Record

         

Data Item

 

Result

Unit

Occurred

 

Engine speed (max.)

6300

r/min

1727.7

 

Over-rev. count

 

36

times

1727.7

 

Overheat count

 

0

times

0

 

Low oil pressure count

0

times

0

 

Knock control count

 

0

times

0

 

Rotor (FWM) replacement count

2

times

   

 

In the below section, Engine Operation hours according to engine speed you will notice the RPM operating hours is recorded in 1000 RPM increments.  It does not record the actually exact rpm for a given time. In other words if an engine runs at 6001 rpm it records this in the 6000 to 7000 rpm section. If you now go back to the top table you can clearly see a standard engine is capable of 6300 rpm, Wether this be due to over rpm when the boat leaves the water and free revs or simply because you are a little under prop’d it is absolutely capable of exceeding 6000rpm in standard form.

 

5.Data Logger [Engine operating hours according to engine speed]

Engine speed

Time[h]

 

- 1000 r/min

975

 

1000 - 2000 r/min

192.9

 

2000 - 3000 r/min

13

 

3000 - 4000 r/min

217.2

 

4000 - 5000 r/min

378.3

 

5000 - 6000 r/min

19.6

 

6000 - 7000 r/min

0.1

 

Engine operating hours

1796

 

 

 

The standard Yamaha ECU Calibration only cuts all cylinders from spark and fuel over 6450 rpm so it is very easy to record engine speeds of 6500 rpm  in stock engines.

The below recorded Data is a Nizpro 450s Supercharged engine running a 6400 rpm limiter

 

1.Data Logger [Engine operating hours according to engine speed]

   

Engine speed

Time  [h]

 

- 1000 r/min

453.2

 

1000 - 2000 r/min

143.5

 

2000 - 3000 r/min

30.4

 

3000 - 4000 r/min

103.9

 

4000 - 5000 r/min

221.8

 

5000 - 6000 r/min

65.2

 

6000 - 7000 r/min

0.4

 

Total hours of operation

1018

 

 

6.Engine Record

     

Data Item

     

Engine speed (max.)

 

6492

806.2

Over-rev. count

 

4

838.2

 

 

 

 

     

Above we have a maximum recorded rpm of 6492 and a total of 4 times. These recorded values are still very similar to what the stock F-250 recorded data is. Although the engines have massive changes within the calibration.  No red flags here!!! 

We can also offer tunes that have factory stock rpm Limits starting at 6200 rpm. This is the beginning of the standard limiter and when cylinder # 2 only has spark and fuel cut, other cylinder are then cut one at a time until all are cut at 6450 rpm.

At Yamaha dealer level this is the information that is able to be read using the YDS diagnostic system along with the last 19 minutes of engine operation. .  Of course Yamaha have not taken me though what that can and cannot see within the file at programming level.

 

 

 

Emissions:

Unlike motor vehicles when it is possible to disconnect or remove emission hardware as mentioned in above  posts this is not the case with outboards, we are not removing catalytic converters, DPF filters or modifying any mechanical components. This is not to say ECU calibration does not play a massive role in emissions output. 

Unlike motor vehicles, taking an exhaust gas sample is very complex in comparison to a motor vehicle as outboards have a constant stream or water being mixed with the exhaust gas so doing this cannot happen at your local boat ramp.

However customers can certainly request a standard 250 SHO or F300 file be flashed into their ECU if they owner a smaller Hp version. At this point they comply to all relevant regulations as per a Standard Yamaha calibration file.

Emission regulation are constructed around mass of pollutants per Kilowatt / Hp Per hour. [g/kW-hr] So we are not limited by HP rating but by the amount of emissions generated per hp per hour.  By engineering reasoning  the higher hp re-flash would only effect emission at points within the calibration that have been modified from standard. From our own testing, the emissions  generated from our 450s Supercharger kit are less than that of a standard F300 engine per hp. 

 

As seen in the below information.

Reference - Section 1045.107 Emission limits – “Not to Exceed Limits”

For each engine configuration, evaluate the NTE limits using table 1 of 1045.103 and 2 of §1045.107. For example, for

Yamaha 300 HP: P = 450 [HP], P = 336 [KW]

then the following Not To Exceed Standard (NTE) limits apply to each family:

Pollutant

Subzone 1 [g/kW-hr]

Subzone 2 [g/kW-hr]

HC + NOX

22.33

25.52

CO

450

450 *

Table 2 - NTE Limits - smallest engine in family 336 [KW]

 

Nizpro has since the mid 1990’s taken emissions very seriously, we were, if not the very first one of the very first companies in Australia to have our power upgraded modified vehicles fully emissions tested and complied, meeting full Australian Design Rules ( ADR ).

 

Hope the above further answers your questions.

 

Thanks again.

Great reply and data you provided. Good stuff.

Dragsters and Race cars use the same formula's I believe.

I respectfully do not believe that high RPM's equate to longevity. Never worked so far on diesel applications to my knowledge.

 

Are you saying that this programing meets all standards and all the manufacturers of outboard engines refuse to bring these huge gains into their design?

 

Not bashing at all just asking.

 

 

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Simmon you said that all the about modifications meet all Australian design rules , do they meet all US federal emission laws for marine outboards and is it ok to use on a recreational boat or is there a waiver that has to be filled out before your company does a reflash ?  I was told the before Nizpro does a reflash on a Yamaha you had to sign a waiver that says Nizpro is not responsible for any performance and / warranty issues . Is there any type of guaranteed MPH gain doing a 225 reflash without raising the factory max RPM rev limiter ? If so what is the min MPH increase that I would see ?  

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Think that he explained earlier that tuning to 323 hp is not a huge gain, since the engines are already tuned to 300 hp by the OEM. They are just giving you the option of buying a 200hp engine and re-tuning to a higher hp.

I have worked closely with several diesel engine manufacturers, both internally and externally. It is common knowledge that engines are sold on power rating, so higher power ratings command more money, even though the engine supplier cost is the same. Part of this is obviously marketing, but there is some method to the madness. Warranty costs on the higher power engines can be higher, so a higher price supports this. The other is that the lower rated engines are essentially subsidized by the higher rated engines, helping them be more competitive in their power range. So they are not ripping you off, just pricing them to support their business plan.

The reason the manufacturers will not honor third party tunes is that they are outside of their control and it screws up their marketing plan and associated profitability.

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Question I have is if you buy the the $1400 tuner, can you tune to 200, 225, 250, 300 and 323 hp? What I read was you can tune to 323 hp and it saves the original tune and then you can reinstall the original tune. But are other hp tunes already on the tuner, other than 323 hp?

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12 hours ago, Capt. Troy said:

Gonna call BS on this to some degree.

I have owned several 2011 and newer 6.7 diesel trucks and a ton of them since 1985 when they were the 6.5 IH. Traded, sold and maintained a fleet of them.

I just traded one and had to sign a piece of paper stating the emissions had not been modified to any degree. I shopped around my trade and not a single dealer did not ask if the truck had been deleted. They won't touch one deleted.

 

I could go on for days to try to explain why My 21 MA with a 250 SHO converted to a 450 HP engine is a bad idea.

For the betterment of this thread, can you please share the state statute that dictates motor vehicles or marine vessels meet an emissions standard in Florida. When you traded your truck in, you were no longer the end user. The dealer needs to be able to sell that truck to any customer (or auction off) located anywhere in the country...The document you signed allows them to come back to you should something be amiss with the emission system. Sooooo many people who delete/omit these items on their truck keep them so they can return to stock at a later date.

As for high RPM and diesel engines, there's simply no need. They make maximum torque at very low RPM....that's the intent of the design. For comparison, look at maximum effort GAS engine applications; Indy cars, NASCAR cup cars, even sport  bikes. If you look at the Yamaha R1, which is 1000 c.c.'s (1 liter) it makes somewhere around 160 h.p. In theory, if you double the displacement, you should make 320 h.p. I don't believe the 4.2 liter is breaking a sweat at the 300 h.p. mark. There are simply too many variables at play to discuss in this thread or this forum.

As for my personal application, my rig is rated for 300 h.p. I think I'll live on the edge and go for that additional 8-10% (on it's best day) increase. I wouldn't assume that the manufacturer isn't interested in the performance of their hulls, especially since Mr. Lyshon directed us to Ft. Myers Marine to obtain the tune we're discussing in this thread.

 

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11 hours ago, BradM said:

For the betterment of this thread, can you please share the state statute that dictates motor vehicles or marine vessels meet an emissions standard in Florida. When you traded your truck in, you were no longer the end user. The dealer needs to be able to sell that truck to any customer (or auction off) located anywhere in the country...The document you signed allows them to come back to you should something be amiss with the emission system. Sooooo many people who delete/omit these items on their truck keep them so they can return to stock at a later date.

As for high RPM and diesel engines, there's simply no need. They make maximum torque at very low RPM....that's the intent of the design. For comparison, look at maximum effort GAS engine applications; Indy cars, NASCAR cup cars, even sport  bikes. If you look at the Yamaha R1, which is 1000 c.c.'s (1 liter) it makes somewhere around 160 h.p. In theory, if you double the displacement, you should make 320 h.p. I don't believe the 4.2 liter is breaking a sweat at the 300 h.p. mark. There are simply too many variables at play to discuss in this thread or this forum.

As for my personal application, my rig is rated for 300 h.p. I think I'll live on the edge and go for that additional 8-10% (on it's best day) increase. I wouldn't assume that the manufacturer isn't interested in the performance of their hulls, especially since Mr. Lyshon directed us to Ft. Myers Marine to obtain the tune we're discussing in this thread.

 

Do what you want. I'm good with it.

I live in a different world and understand liabilities very well.. When Mr. Lyshon straps this stuff on his boats out of the factory then I'm all in. Skip told you where to find and get these mods and I'm good with it.

If it were all that then it would be offered straight from Fort Pierce Florida, Yamaha and so on.

Major manufactures have standards to meet. Don't know of a single one that builds state by state to meet EPA regs. They build to meet a standard in the US.

 

There certainly must be a reason in the HP race that power to weight ratios are where they are. I suspect some computer wizard that has never built a *** thing is gonna get all this HP with a program that those with skin in the game can't come up with.

Sorry, but I call snake oil.

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Certain posts have been deleted from this thread and one member has been banned! Everyone please be civil! This thread was initiated to provide technical information on performance enhancement! It is okay to discuss, agree, disagree, but no personal attacks or lack of civility will be tolerated. Thank you!!

 

MOD2

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14 hours ago, Moderator said:

Certain posts have been deleted from this thread and one member has been banned! Everyone please be civil! This thread was initiated to provide technical information on performance enhancement! It is okay to discuss, agree, disagree, but no personal attacks or lack of civility will be tolerated. Thank you!!

 

MOD2

Fair enough but I still have some things going on in my head about the cause and effects of this process.

Like, what are the stresses to the hull when you over HP them. The faster you go the more that engine on the back is trying to tear itself off.

Spinning bigger props increases the stress on all the drive components. Kinda Like when the Verados couldn't keep a standard Gen 1 lower unit in one piece.

I also wonder why when you get into larger HP and higher torque applications the gear cases "transmissions" are inside the boat because they are large to handle high HP. There not hanging off some drive shaft being drug through the water. Just look at the drive system for the 7 engines. Far from a standard lower unit.

I will agree that all the 4.2 blocks are the same as are their lower units and doubt any ill effects would come from taking a 200 HP to a 300 HP if the hull is rated for it. That to include the steering mechanism and a few other things like the jack plate and so on.

Some boats become much more of a handful to operate as the max speed increases. A few miles per hour is no big deal but when you start going from 60 to 70 plus MPH in a hull not designed for that speed is where the unknowns come into play.

 

The very competitive HP/weight race is a huge driver in today's outboard market and I find it strange that the big 3 aren't embracing these tweaks. Seems Mercury has gone back to naturally aspirated products for their latest technology.

Hey, to each his own and I would never tell anyone what to do with their own boats and engines. I tend to lean to not fooling around too much with my hard earned dollars. Especially where there is hull and engine warranty involved.

Lots of good info here none the less.

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