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BradM

Nizpro Tune // 250 SHO

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Back when I was dealing with the “making oil” problem and talking with the Yamaha customer service people in Atlanta, I point blank asked them if the 200, 225, and the 250 SHO were identical engines except for the ECU’s.  They would never give me a straight answer!  LOL

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I'm sure there are hp limitations in some fishing tournaments, too? I've picked the owner/directors brain at Nizpro pretty good and am confidant that this is the best tune on the market for the SHO engine. I don't know the price difference between a 200 SHO and a 250 SHO, but with this out there, why not just buy a 200 and tune it for $700 and make 125+ more hp....It's less $ than a prop, and we're all guilty of the "prop dance" looking for more of something....low end, mid range or top end. 

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As soon as I have a little spare time, im going to reach out to Ft Myers Marine(unless y’all have any other recommendations). I’ve touched 57 light in my 22 but always have struggled to get full rpms. And when loaded it barely gets 50-51, my tower is a sail. I spin a 20p 4 blade PT so an extra 60-70 hp might be just right

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This may help answer a couple of questions about the ECU tune.  The F225, F250, F300, VF200 SHO, VF225 SHO, and VF250 SHO are all 4.2L motors, they're all the same block.  The difference between the F series (Offshore) and the VF series (SHO) is simply the mapping in the ECU.  The difference being the SHO is designed to give better hole shot and mid range power for the more high performance bass boat/inshore boats.  If you do a comparison on the Yamaha Outboards website you can see everything else is almost identical. 

We have done several Nizpro Marine Supercharger installs as well as several ECU Flashes.  Here is our experience with both;

ECU flashes- I really wanted to see what the difference would be, so the first one we did was a 2014 22 TE Pathfinder with a VF200 SHO with an OFX 4 blade Power Tech Prop (I don't remember the pitch).  The customer wanted to get the flash but didn't want to  spend another $500 on a prop.  Before the flash, he was getting 49-50 mph with good hole shot.  After we flashed the ECU, the customer and I took the boat to the water.  I had the customer drive the boat to see what his reaction would be.  When he hit the throttle, I said holy $hit under my breath, after we just got on plane at cruise, he said "unbelievable."  I then took over the wheel and wanted to run it up to full throttle trimming it out.  I easily got the rpm's up to 6300 rpm 59 mph.  We ran it up and down the river several times and he was happy.

The ECU flash also raises the rev limiter on the SHO to 6400 or 7000.  The F series motor goes to 6600.  Why these numbers were chosen, that's a question for the Nizpro guys.  

The next flash we did was on a 23 HPS with a F300.  The customer is a competitive tournament fisherman, spent a ton of time propping it just perfect, etc.  After the flash, the customer said he gained about 2 mph and it ran the rpms up about 400.  He was happy with that as we told the customer not to expect a crazy gain.  

We Flashed a 2002 22 Pathfinder with a VF 225 SHO, the guy is trying to prop it perfectly but is getting 64 mph out of it now, and still gaining.  This one impressed me, and is the one on the Nizpro Facebook Page.

Full disclosure, we have a couple more boats out there with different reports.  20 Lake and Bay, VF 250 SHO, very experienced, no additional top end 71mph at 6100 RPM, more mid range power.  22 Shearwater with 250 SHO, The dad has not driven the boat yet, the son has and says there is no change.  We used our 300 test ECU on an older Hydra Sports 23 and the customer said there was no gain.  I think some boats just won't go any faster without a significant HP increase.

My personal 2014 Pathfinder 2600 tower boat, propped with a Turbo 4 blade 19.  This was a challenge propping this boat as at the time there was not a lot of data out there with the tower.  After all the testing, I chose this prop for the high cruise speed of 40 mph at 4000 rpm, getting 3 mpg.  I couldn't believe how efficient and fast it was at cruise, however I sacrificed higher top end (upper 50's with 3 blade merc prop), and I could only turn 5200 RPM .  I was totally ok with this.  I flashed my ECU and ran it solo with a full tank of fuel.  I got the boat up to 5500 rpm and 54 mph trimmed out.  I don't often run it this hard, soooo, was there difference, I wasn't confident enough to say yes, but maybe.  A couple days later, I ran the boat in a tournament, jumping up on plane, running full throttle, etc...  Not even thinking about the tune, Now I noticed the difference.  The throttle is much more responsive and I hit the 54 mph 5500 rpm easily, and quicker.  

It is very hard to give accurate information based on what people tell me about the speed of boats.  Everyone and I mean everyone runs their boats differently.  Touch the jack plate or trim for a second, run 87 instead of 89 fuel, or 89 instead of 90 rec fuel, batteries forward, batteries back, props, nicked props, etc.. and everything changes.... 

So, is it worth it,  for $700, yes.    

The Nizpro supercharger.  Is it going to cost you the advertised price, I doubt it.  What about reliability, don't really know yet.  Are we and the customers having some serious fun with them, absolutely!  Basically, you have to have some disposable income to add whatever the motor needs after it's on.  For example, 10 hours in prop testing, lower unit modifications, maybe power assist steering, solid motor mounts?  There are a lot of variables that go into one of these.  I tell everyone to plan on 15K and hope it comes in lower, it may come in more?  This unit is definitely not a tinker toy with a lot of research and development going into it. 

Bryan

 

 

 

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Bery, bery interesting!!!!!!!  Fascinating for sure!!!!!  Thanks for the info.

Speed isn't for everyone.  But for instance, I made an hour and ten minute high speed run (averaged probably 40 mph at 4400 - 4500 rpms) south in the ICW yesterday to catch fish.  An extra 5 or 10 mph is very desirable for me in that case! 

"We Flashed a 2002 22 Pathfinder with a VF 225 SHO, the guy is trying to prop it perfectly but is getting 64 mph out of it now, and still gaining.  This one impressed me, and is the one on the Nizpro Facebook Page. "

Bryan, I wonder if you could check back with this customer and find out what prop he is using.  This is exactly the same set up that I have.

 

 

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dcathy, Bryan of Fort Meyers Marine posted right under you. He's the guy you'll get on the phone when you call them. They are also a Pathfinder dealer, as Skip mentioned earlier.

Hey Bryan, thanks for chiming in with all of you first hand experience. I'm the fella who called you the other day with the 23 HPS, up in Jax. Simon, of Nizpro, also asked that I tune him into this forum/thread, and I have. There is a chance we will hear from the man himself.

I knew JEM would be all over that 22 with the 225! I have a feeling there's about to be quite a few fast(er) MBG rigs running around.

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Has anyone explored the longevity issues of tuning a 250 HP engine to produce 325 HP? It might be an unfair comparison, but back in the late 60's and early 70's my friends who tricked out their cars to achieve this type of performance gain invariably ended up blowing up their engines.

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i Can see this thread is going to cost me money. More real world numbers on the type boats we run than I have seen before. 

My 200 SHO on a 2200 TRS is almost apples to apples with what they tested. 

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10 hours ago, HoneyB said:

i Can see this thread is going to cost me money. More real world numbers on the type boats we run than I have seen before. 

My 200 SHO on a 2200 TRS is almost apples to apples with what they tested. 

You could have a 320 SHO for a few bucks. :D

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20 hours ago, hawg said:

Has anyone explored the longevity issues of tuning a 250 HP engine to produce 325 HP? It might be an unfair comparison, but back in the late 60's and early 70's my friends who tricked out their cars to achieve this type of performance gain invariably ended up blowing up their engines.

Yeah, I’m curious about the longevity issue as well. Are there minimum used engine condition requirements to do the flash? I.E. Any risk of shorter, than designed life, when performing the flash on a 1000 hr engine w/ good compression, no oil burn, solid performance now, etc.?

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Ok, I'm still interested, but confused. brian@FMM writes, " the ECU is worth $700". But in the last paragraph he writes, "I tell everyone to plan on 15K and hope it comes in lower, it may come in more". 

Is Brian saying that the end cost could be $15,000? Help me understand. 

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"The Nizpro supercharger.  Is it going to cost you the advertised price, I doubt it.  What about reliability, don't really know yet.  Are we and the customers having some serious fun with them, absolutely!  Basically, you have to have some disposable income to add whatever the motor needs after it's on.  For example, 10 hours in prop testing, lower unit modifications, maybe power assist steering, solid motor mounts?  There are a lot of variables that go into one of these.  I tell everyone to plan on 15K and hope it comes in lower, it may come in more?  This unit is definitely not a tinker toy with a lot of research and development going into it.  "

The whole paragraph tells me that the Supercharger may cost $15K by the time you are done with lower unit mods, prop testing, premium fuel, etc.

 

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That’s right.  He is talking the the total cost on the supercharger, which takes it up to the 500 hp range.

As far as a ECU flash, I like to think of the old saying that there is no replacement for displacement.  I remember the old, heavy, big displacement, 2 stroke Detroit’s and the heavy Cat diesels, pumping out 200 and 250 hp, but would run forever (tens of thousands of hours).  Well, if you look at the Mercury 350 Verado’s and the 400R, that hp is produced out of a 2.6 liter displacement motor.  Well, my 225 SHO is a 4.2 liter displacement.  So to tune it up to 320 hp, that is still a much, much lower hp to displacement ratio than the Mercury motors!  Just my uneducated thinking......

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8 minutes ago, JEM said:

I believe the mods should zap this post.

x-2    No reason to use this language there are minors on this forum . Capt. Lucky 23 if you want your message to stay on the forum you may want to edit your message and change some of the wording . We respect your opinion but not the language that you used . 

 

 

 

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I could go in and point out all your errors Capt Lucky, and that would put your entire post into question!   But I feel it would be a total waste of my time.  And I don’t have any time to spare.

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So am I to understand the Nizpro tune is all or nothing?

The rated horsepower for my 2200 is 250. So I would be at over 50 hp over the rated horse power rating. This does not concern me as far as running the boat. My concern would come when I sell the boat. What type of liability would always be hanging out if I tuned the motor to 300 hp. 

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55 minutes ago, HoneyB said:

So am I to understand the Nizpro tune is all or nothing?

The rated horsepower for my 2200 is 250. So I would be at over 50 hp over the rated horse power rating. This does not concern me as far as running the boat. My concern would come when I sell the boat. What type of liability would always be hanging out if I tuned the motor to 300 hp. 

Send it back to Bryan at Fort Myers Marine and flash it back to stock. I was under the impression that it wouldn't cost much more than shipping. You can also buy the cable and all that from Nizpro, and do the flash yourself. This allows you to save the stock ECU file to your machine, which you could switch back whenever you wanted. I believe this option is around $1,400.

I have invited Simon, of Nizpro, to join this forum and participate in this discussion. He doesn't have the time to frequent every manufacturers forum or reply to every thread, but hopefully he will make an appearance here soon.

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