Porpoising Redfisher

[Coto]

19 hours ago, Nolezone said:

I am so happy to have your input Mr Moderator! I will take photos of my set up and send to you. It kills me to have such a nice boat with such poor on-water performance. Look for my info soon and thanks. 

 

Below are are the pictures of my current set up:

2008 Hewes Redfisher 18’, 150hp Yamaha VMAX 2 stroke, Lenco recessed trim tabs, jack plate, 4 blade Solas 14X21 pitch

Problem...almost uncontrollable porpoising no matter how I configure the set up. ONLY way to minimize is to run with engine trimmed all the way down, jack plate all the way down and trim tabs fully extended down. Looking for some of you pros to tell me what the heck is wrong!!

I had an 2003 18 Redfisher with the same 150VMax and ran it with a Powertech OFX 21 and a a Yamaha 21m. Both were correct for that hull, no porpoising and 55mph top end. I did add a negative wedge at the transom to get me on plane quicker. That wedge was awesome instead of the bow rising like normal when getting up on plane it kept it down more. I was always told if you go from a 3 blade prop to a 4 blade prop you drop 2 pitch sizes so I don’t see how you can be performing well with that 21 pitch blade.

[J.N]

I'd love to try that solas if it's bow lifting that hard. My 21 redfisher needs more bow lift. I have a powertech ptc3 21 now and I never use the tabs and my top speed is trimmed until my motor hits too many rpm's from cavitation.  

 

[jjs]

Seems like a lot of variables....and possibly more than one solution given year of manufacture, engine, weight and distribution, jack plate, etc.

As mentioned on page 1, I have a 2019 - 18 Redfisher w/150 SHO and an Atlas 6" jack plate with expected delivery in the next couple of weeks.  The Dealer mentioned a specific prop matched to that set-up.....I will give it a try and see what happens....and at least report back regarding that set-up.

[geeviam]

1 hour ago, J.N said:

I'd love to try that solas if it's bow lifting that hard. My 21 redfisher needs more bow lift. I have a powertech ptc3 21 now and I never use the tabs and my top speed is trimmed until my motor hits too many rpm's from cavitation.

J.N, I should clarify that my point on late model Redfishers and high rake, bow lifting props, does not include the Redfisher 21.  Different beast.  I have two high rake props that I can run on my RF 16, and they are fast at high trim, but I have to be ready on the trim/tilt & trim/tab buttons for quick adjustments.  Your video is great!

[dabear]

Lots of variables on setting up a boat to perform and ride like the owners wants and likes to drive it . Simple way to see if the boat is balanced fairly close take a full size friend out for a boat ride with you have him sit next to you check how the boat performs from hole shot to top end and see how it rides with diff trim settings , than have your friend sit up front and run the boat the same way. If one way is faster and rides better start moving weight to balance the boat , if it didn’t change anything than moving weight most likely won’t help. 

[smilemaker]

For the lonesome crowd sandbags and concrete blocks are your friend.

I would take the tm batteries out of the boat and replace with equal weight of blocks and sandbags. Move them to front hatch and see how it performs.  This will let you know  what to expect if you give up the space under the seat. This will also allow you to add more weight to check  performance. 

The prop selection still comes into play as it seems it is not close to being appropriate

In the old days before computers this is how boats were designed and set up

[Coto]

Sorry I forgot to mention my prop was a 3 bladed OFX21 and 21M.

[hurricane]

First thing I would do is remove the jackplate. No cost and can always put it back if it doesn't help. Second, move all the batts as far forward as possible, maybe some wiring to be done to make this happen. Final step would be a prop, that can be a tricky and pricey path to go down. Marcus is the man though when it comes to prop info. 

No matter how you go about it, I think you've got all the answers here to get your boat running smooth. 

[Bud_man]

Maybe I missed it, but what is your battery setup?  When I bought my 16 Bayfisher/Redfisher the guy had a 27 and a 24 series battery (almost 100 lbs!) in the aft compartment.  Swapping those out (for tiny Odyssey batteries) made a big difference in performance and squat.  

On the prop, with Marcus' guidance, I went to a lower pitch PowerTech SCD to maximize hole shot and it completely transformed the performance of the boat compared to the previous yami 3 blade.  The right prop makes all the difference in the world.  Marcus will get you dialed in!

Good luck!

Bud

[Nolezone]

2 hours ago, Bud_man said:

Maybe I missed it, but what is your battery setup?  When I bought my 16 Bayfisher/Redfisher the guy had a 27 and a 24 series battery (almost 100 lbs!) in the aft compartment.  Swapping those out (for tiny Odyssey batteries) made a big difference in performance and squat.  

On the prop, with Marcus' guidance, I went to a lower pitch PowerTech SCD to maximize hole shot and it completely transformed the performance of the boat compared to the previous yami 3 blade.  The right prop makes all the difference in the world.  Marcus will get you dialed in!

Good luck!

Bud

I have a large blue main/starting battery in my starboard aft hatch that almost all peripherals are connected to. I have 2 full size batteries solely for my trolling motor under the console seat as far forward as space allowed. They are just forward of midship and if anything should’ve reduced overall stern weight but who knows. At present, I’m not storing much stuff in my large front hatch (2008 model RF) but I hate to give up space if I don’t have to as space is valuable in my year/model. 

Moving the TM batteries would require substantial wiring at $100/hr but if that is or is a part of my needed “fix,” I’ll do it. I’m heading out Friday AM to test and chart my RPM’s and speed using just my tilt/trim and jack plate per Marcus’s suggestions. His prop advice will be based on my findings. Wish me luck, hope I don’t porpoise/bounce out of my speeding Craft. 

[J.N]

13 hours ago, jjs said:

Seems like a lot of variables....and possibly more than one solution given year of manufacture, engine, weight and distribution, jack plate, etc.

As mentioned on page 1, I have a 2019 - 18 Redfisher w/150 SHO and an Atlas 6" jack plate with expected delivery in the next couple of weeks.  The Dealer mentioned a specific prop matched to that set-up.....I will give it a try and see what happens....and at least report back regarding that set-up.

Congrats on the new ride. I'm sure you are excited to hit the water in that thing.

[J.N]

12 hours ago, geeviam said:

J.N, I should clarify that my point on late model Redfishers and high rake, bow lifting props, does not include the Redfisher 21.  Different beast.  I have two high rake props that I can run on my RF 16, and they are fast at high trim, but I have to be ready on the trim/tilt & trim/tab buttons for quick adjustments.  Your video is great!

My 21 RF does porpoise a little around the high twenty's.  I like the way it rides at 35 mph +. 

[J.N]

9 hours ago, Coto said:

Sorry I forgot to mention my prop was a 3 bladed OFX21 and 21M.

I just noticed you have the same motor that's on my 21 RF. What prop are you running now and what's the top speed?

[Coto]

7 hours ago, J.N said:

I just noticed you have the same motor that's on my 21 RF. What prop are you running now and what's the top speed?

I have a Yamaha 21M 57-59 mph. I also use a Yamaha 23M which gets me 60-62 mph. Both are 3 blade never felt the need for 4 bladed props.

[mulligan]

You are missing part of the fun of a new boat, playing with it to set it up how you want it to run.  It sounds like you have a good starting point just might need a bit of tweaking.I like the idea of an empty boat and bringing sandbags to play with the weight shift although by what I read you can not be far off.  I would try to get my hands on a few props to run to see how they do.  They do not have to be the exact prop for you just something close to give you an idea and arm you with more info when it comes time to drop the coin on a new on.  Remember everyone's setup is going to be a little different than yours and everyone wants something a little different in ride and what they want out of their boat.  Enjoy getting just right for you.

[jjs]

9 hours ago, J.N said:

Congrats on the new ride. I'm sure you are excited to hit the water in that thing.

Thanks!  I am looking forward to hitting the water soon....

[Nolezone]

14 hours ago, mulligan said:

You are missing part of the fun of a new boat, playing with it to set it up how you want it to run.  It sounds like you have a good starting point just might need a bit of tweaking.I like the idea of an empty boat and bringing sandbags to play with the weight shift although by what I read you can not be far off.  I would try to get my hands on a few props to run to see how they do.  They do not have to be the exact prop for you just something close to give you an idea and arm you with more info when it comes time to drop the coin on a new on.  Remember everyone's setup is going to be a little different than yours and everyone wants something a little different in ride and what they want out of their boat.  Enjoy getting just right for you.

Good advice, I am floored by all the knowledge and help on this site. Happy to be here and THX!!

[J.N]

16 hours ago, Coto said:

I have a Yamaha 21M 57-59 mph. I also use a Yamaha 23M which gets me 60-62 mph. Both are 3 blade never felt the need for 4 bladed props.

 I get 54 mph with 2 adults. I think I have the slowest 21 RF on this forum.  By the time I get my motor trimmed for max speed it's hitting 5800 rpm's.  I really think I need a better prop. I'm using the Powertech PTC 21P 3 blade and it's worn out.

[VsteveV]

With out tabs.. I would bounce my cooler off the bow of my 18rf....It is annoying at times but Ive learnerd to deal with it. Its like playing piano with the tab buttons, jp, motor trim. And I too really need a new prop and that X7 looks appealing! 

[geeviam]

6 minutes ago, VsteveV said:

Its like playing piano with the tab buttons, jp, motor trim.

[lurem]

10 hours ago, J.N said:

 I get 54 mph with 2 adults. I think I have the slowest 21 RF on this forum.  By the time I get my motor trimmed for max speed it's hitting 5800 rpm's.  I really think I need a better prop. I'm using the Powertech PTC 21P 3 blade and it's worn out.

J.N. The PTC is a good prop, at least it was on my Ma 18.5, why not send it out and have it reconditioned and tuned up?

[Nolezone]

Spoke with Marcus at Powertech this week and he gave me an exercise: Do 4-5 trials with my boat w/o using any trim tabs at all. Start on Jack Plate setting "0" (all the way down) with trim tabs all the way up (don't use them AT ALL!) and put the throttle tilt/trim switch in the all the way down position.

Do a hole shot and go all the way to wide open and chart top RPM and Speed results. Do the same thing at Jack Plate settings of 1-4 and chart the RPM's and Speeds for all trials.

After doing the trials, go back and go wide open again but this time use the throttle trim/tilt switch to adjust the results. What a difference! I found my fastest speed with in the Jack Plate position 3 with the engine trimmed up just slightly. I wasn't even using the Jack Plate before because of the bouncing I encountered at even 3300 RPMS. I thought I was going to throw myself out of the boat! Turns out I have a very fast boat (56mph @ 5800RPM's) that likes to run. The porpoising at mid-speed (28-34mph) is just something I have to get through. 

And my ideal cruising set up is Jack Plate setting 1, 4000 RPM's and 38mph. Now, which new prop to buy to really seal this deal...need you one more time Funky Monkey!

Thanks to Marcus at Powertech for helping me understand how all these components work with each other. I feel so much more confident now.
 

[fishmanjj]

The funky monkey is the BEST !  He has helped me with props for the past 15 years and he is 99.999999999% correct every time.  By the way, Marcus provided that statistic to me years ago. JJ

[Coto]

21 hours ago, J.N said:

 I get 54 mph with 2 adults. I think I have the slowest 21 RF on this forum.  By the time I get my motor trimmed for max speed it's hitting 5800 rpm's.  I really think I need a better prop. I'm using the Powertech PTC 21P 3 blade and it's worn out.

The top numbers are with me alone as I do a lot of solo fishing. The lower numbers are with two in the boat. Now the numbers have diminished a tad as the props have a lot more wear now. I bet you switch that PTC to a brand new OFX and you will do better in top end. If you want more top end then a 23p will do it that hpdi will turn that blade at least the yammie 23m with two on board. Never had a problem getting on plane with it. Also talk about a rooster tail when I’m all trimmed up and jack plate up:

[Moderator]

"...Thanks to Marcus at Powertech for helping me understand how all these components work with each other. I feel so much more confident now."

Marcus is incredible... He didn't sell you a prop,  but he spent the time to teach you how to trim your boat..  He has a history of helping people enjoy their boats more..

Glad you figured out the three trim systems on your skiff.  Your Solas prop performs really well !!

Mod M