Talking Points

[Capt. Troy]

The FGA has its annual meeting at the end of the Month at Raymond James stadium.

 

Thought I would share some talking points I intend to bring up. CCA and the Snook Foundation members will be there.

Hey All,

It may be time to start talking about the many concerned guides I have been speaking with about the lack of redfish and decline of trout on the west coast. I have been speaking with many long time area guides that are noticing the virtual disappearance of the larger schools of reds and the decline in the numbers of sea trout. The now open season of trout harvest that has gone to 365 days a year and the recently altered 2 redfish limit back to 1 per person may be part of this issue.

I am going to try and invite some of these non member guides to our meeting and hopefully get some input and possibly get some of them to get on board with the FGA.

Another topic which I feel that needs to be addressed is the ever increasing numbers of fishing licensed exempted fisherman that are not being counted towards catch effort. This state is full of retirees and more are coming. The growth rate is alarming and is creeping up on the fishery.

"Children under the age of 16 and resident seniors who are 65 or older are not required to purchase *most recreational licenses. However, officers may ask exempt children and seniors for proof of age. Seniors should also be prepared to show proof of residency." NOT COUNTED"


 As an example in the last 2 years all of the high and dry boat storage facilities in my area now have very lengthy waiting lists.  Most of the area boat ramps are at capacity on weekends and are extremely busy during the week. I observed over 100 sea trout cleaned at the marina I operate out of in a mere 3 hour period while doing maintenance on my charter boat. Some of the guides in the area are running 2 trips a day with 4 anglers and taking limits of trout and reds of which they are taking their 5/1 per person limit. That should be illegal just like it is with snook and the federal waters fishery.

It is mind boggling to see the huge increase in effort on a daily basis. At a event back in October for charity there was a total of over 100 guides fishing the waters of Tampa bay. These were licensed and insured guides with 3 to 4 anglers per boat. All these guides were local to the area.

Just a few talking points that we can work on.

Later,

 

 

Capt. Troy P. Sapp
Fins and Tails Guide Service
http://finsandtailsguideservice.com/#welcome
Tsapp22334@aol.com
WWW.Florida-guides.com

 

[linesider 159]

Troy, I will sign or email anything needed to support the closing of trout and/or redfish. I know many guides and tournament anglers that would do the same. All weigh in redfish tournaments should require an fwc approved waiver, redfish closed for 2 years, and all of tampa bay no wake 100-200 yards from shore

[Capt. Troy]

Not quite ready to ask for closures unless sound science calls for it. I certainly feel it's time for a stock assessment and we really need a more accurate count of the effort. Make the exempted ones at least carry a license so the can be counted even if it is free. Personally I feel there should be no exemptions and all should have to pay for the privilege to fish.  They darn sure don't let the exempted ones launch for free.

 

Just think how many folks retire down here and fish and have never contributed a dime to the fishery.

 

As for the shore line buzzing it needs to stop. The bird people get their way you won't be allowed by any means near the shore line. "Bird flushing" as they call it. They have tried it, trust me.

[A-SALT]

Most people don’t know about the commercial trout guys in the area running miles of hook and line. When the season is open I see these guys out in abundance like stone crabbers. Then sold to the Chinese market.(see this a lot in NPR) I feel this could also be a good issue to bring up.

on the other hand I dont see a problem with the the redfish. Seems this year I cant get a bait past them to catch a snook. I was running nearshore the other day and ran over two two acre schools of reds. But then again I don’t trailer much to fish other areas.

I think with the more and more boat traffic it displaces the schools into different areas. Since this has been brought to my attention I’m curious to see the numbers around tarpon key when all the guides head down to boca.

on the license side of thing maybe have more fishery inspections at high volume ramps can cut down on the illegal harvest and teach some of the ignorant. Also this could be the more conservative route to grasp the harvest numbers while cracking down on the folks that are not aware or that are flat out breaking the law.

attached is a 6 second video (silly Snapchat vid) of the reds like I said tho I don’t trailer much to other areas so I can only speak on the behalf of my are.2178D147-26D8-4149-8B8C-6A9CBB7134B0.MP4

[linesider 159]

I can understand the need for guides to keep fish when clients ask, so perhaps some reasoning there would help. The way snook have rebounded after a couple closed years has been fantastic. 

[linesider 159]

6 minutes ago, A-SALT said:

Most people don’t know about the commercial trout guys in the area running miles of hook and line. When the season is open I see these guys out in abundance like stone crabbers. Then sold to the Chinese market.(see this a lot in NPR) I feel this could also be a good issue to bring up.

on the other hand I dont see a problem with the the redfish. Seems this year I cant get a bait past them to catch a snook. I was running nearshore the other day and ran over two two acre schools of reds. But then again I don’t trailer much to fish other areas.

I think with the more and more boat traffic it displaces the schools into different areas. Since this has been brought to my attention I’m curious to see the numbers around tarpon key when all the guides head down to boca.

on the license side of thing maybe have more fishery inspections at high volume ramps can cut down on the illegal harvest and teach some of the ignorant. Also this could be the more conservative route to grasp the harvest numbers while cracking down on the folks that are not aware or that are flat out breaking the law.

attached is a 6 second video (silly Snapchat vid) of the reds like I said tho I don’t trailer much to other areas so I can only speak on the behalf of my are.2178D147-26D8-4149-8B8C-6A9CBB7134B0.MP4

You sure that isn't black drum?

[nicecast]

Been noting the redfish drop for years. Posted it here a while ago and got a bunch of "what's wrong with you; we caught a bunch last weekend" comments. Disappointing.

Another is tripletail. They aren't sexually mature until 17-18" and virtually every other Gulf state has moved to that size. FL is still at 15". Makes no bloody sense at all.

And agree with linesider - tighter regs have clearly helped the snook population.

We're loving our fisheries to death.

[A-SALT]

19 minutes ago, linesider 159 said:

You sure that isn't black drum?

Both schools were reds. Unmistakable. Jumped into shoot a cobia

[A-SALT]

54 minutes ago, nicecast said:

Been noting the redfish drop for years. Posted it here a while ago and got a bunch of "what's wrong with you; we caught a bunch last weekend" comments. Disappointing.

Another is tripletail. They aren't sexually mature until 17-18" and virtually every other Gulf state has moved to that size and 1/day. FL is still 2/day at 15". Makes no bloody sense at all.

And agree with linesider - tighter regs have clearly helped the snook population.

We're loving our fisheries to death.

Hmm never herd anyone talk about triple tail in that manner. Between my buddy and I have caught over 50+ all well over 5 lbs in the last few months(we let more go then what we keep ) I don’t have any fish in my freezer.

 I spend a lot of time on the water seems the only issue that I can see is with the snook. The last freeze we had you could walk across the Cotee River on top of snook. I still can’t count on them to be in the areas they were 10 years ago. I have yet to adapt to them as of now and continue to have trouble getting one over 24” and I don’t see many big ones in schools. Then again could be the area I’m in.

Im afraid the more regulation on certain species the more impact there may be on others. We need to just set examples  and practice more catch and release as anglers and take what ya need and let the rest swim. 

I strongly believe the commercial side of things need to be reviewed and find a solution for by catch. 

 

[nicecast]

Cool, but we should all be aware that every <18" fish kept is one less possible breeder to propagate the species. When regulation-conservative states like TX, LA, AL, MS, and GA nearly all go up to 18" (TX is 17" - all the rest 18") I believe FL ought to take notice.

[Capt. Troy]

Good input folks.

This is how it starts.

 

Those who do nothing will soon have nothing to do.

[Capt. Troy]

4 hours ago, A-SALT said:

Most people don’t know about the commercial trout guys in the area running miles of hook and line. When the season is open I see these guys out in abundance like stone crabbers. Then sold to the Chinese market.(see this a lot in NPR) I feel this could also be a good issue to bring up.

on the other hand I dont see a problem with the the redfish. Seems this year I cant get a bait past them to catch a snook. I was running nearshore the other day and ran over two two acre schools of reds. But then again I don’t trailer much to fish other areas.

I think with the more and more boat traffic it displaces the schools into different areas. Since this has been brought to my attention I’m curious to see the numbers around tarpon key when all the guides head down to boca.

on the license side of thing maybe have more fishery inspections at high volume ramps can cut down on the illegal harvest and teach some of the ignorant. Also this could be the more conservative route to grasp the harvest numbers while cracking down on the folks that are not aware or that are flat out breaking the law.

attached is a 6 second video (silly Snapchat vid) of the reds like I said tho I don’t trailer much to other areas so I can only speak on the behalf of my are.2178D147-26D8-4149-8B8C-6A9CBB7134B0.MP4

Then, show me the trip tickets. I am aware of the commercial effort. They can also harvest with 2 RS permits on their 150 trout of which their is no limit on fish over 20 inches. A Rec angler is allowed 1 fish over 20 inches per person.

 

If you have 2 acres of redfish around you are the hottest guy in town. I noticed you said you ran over them. You dang sure can't run legally on that flat.

[A-SALT]

39 minutes ago, Capt. Troy said:

Then, show me the trip tickets. I am aware of the commercial effort. They can also harvest with 2 RS permits on their 150 trout of which their is no limit on fish over 20 inches. A Rec angler is allowed 1 fish over 20 inches per person.

 

If you have 2 acres of redfish around you are the hottest guy in town. I noticed you said you ran over them. You dang sure can't run legally on that flat.

Never said it was on a flat please re read “I was running near shore” there’s a difference between inshore,near shore and offshore. Just stating I’ve seen big schools recently in my area and have been on a good redfish bite inshore and in 15’ and can repeat good redfish numbers as I don’t repeatedly hit the same spots every day and can have a postitive outcome on a regular basis.

clearly you must be thinking I’m ok with the commercial fishing for them which I’m not because the by catch is what’s suffering when they run their long lines. So I don’t understand your hostility. Are you not for being more conservative?

[A-SALT]

1 hour ago, nicecast said:

Cool, but we should all be aware that every <18" fish kept is one less possible breeder to propagate the species. When regulation-conservative states like TX, LA, AL, MS, and GA nearly all go up to 18" (TX is 17" - all the rest 18") I believe FL ought to take notice.

Absolutely, if it needs to be measured on the short end should probably go back.

[Capt. Troy]

41 minutes ago, A-SALT said:

Never said it was on a flat please re read “I was running near shore” there’s a difference between inshore,near shore and offshore. Just stating I’ve seen big schools recently in my area and have been on a good redfish bite inshore and in 15’ and can repeat good redfish numbers as I don’t repeatedly hit the same spots every day and can have a postitive outcome on a regular basis.

clearly you must be thinking I’m ok with the commercial fishing for them which I’m not because the by catch is what’s suffering when they run their long lines. So I don’t understand your hostility. Are you not for being more conservative?

Please elaborate on long lines as you speak. Inshore/ inside of 15 feet of water? There are no permissible long lines in the depth you speak.

 

Your confusing me. State your name or carry on with what I will call BS.

[A-SALT]

1 hour ago, Capt. Troy said:

Please elaborate on long lines as you speak. Inshore/ inside of 15 feet of water? There are no permissible long lines in the depth you speak.

 

Your confusing me. State your name or carry on with what I will call BS.

Names mike noticed your out of tarpon springs! If I see ya around and I’ll introduce myself and can talk Fishin and have a beer. I’ve been to Vicki’s and actually admired your offshore boat. Like I said I’m all for what your saying and any new regs won’t effect me. You start a petition I’ll be more than happy to sign it. 

Ypu fishing the peter t assimack or the Johnson invitational? 

[polliwog]

I'm in SWFL fishing the 10K area and have had the same experience with reds and trout.  A week ago our local club had a trout  tournament with 15 boats,  most guys are pretty good fisherman.  Our boat of 3 fisherman caught 3 trout in 6 hrs of fishing and we were in the money,so the results were very disappointing.  No reds were caught by us.  Our area has had very few reds all season so far.  We need to get some attention for the problem.  I'm in.

[Moderator]

Easy guys!  Important subject here! Let refrain from getting personal! Thank you 

MOD2

[mdemott]

I just starting fishing Northeast Florida and I guess due to the cold weather have seen very slow catching. Certainly not like it was when I lived in Stuart. I am exempt from purchasing a license but still get one every year. I hope my small license fee is contributing to the management of our fisheries.

[Capt. Troy]

11 hours ago, A-SALT said:

Names mike noticed your out of tarpon springs! If I see ya around and I’ll introduce myself and can talk Fishin and have a beer. I’ve been to Vicki’s and actually admired your offshore boat. Like I said I’m all for what your saying and any new regs won’t effect me. You start a petition I’ll be more than happy to sign it. 

Ypu fishing the peter t assimack or the Johnson invitational? 

I boycott the Johnson invitational. It is a kill tournament and I have seen the wheel barrels full of fish on the dock. Very poor format. May fish the Assimack but it is being run by a different group this year.

 

As for trout fishing I am requesting a commerecial landings report. They are very important specie as they are the inshore fish that provide to most entertainment to the greatest amount of anglers. The really should be given gamefish status and not for sale. Especially because they don't freeze very well for later consumption.

 

Mod 1 copy that, my bad.

[Capt. Troy]

1 hour ago, mdemott said:

I just starting fishing Northeast Florida and I guess due to the cold weather have seen very slow catching. Certainly not like it was when I lived in Stuart. I am exempt from purchasing a license but still get one every year. I hope my small license fee is contributing to the management of our fisheries.

Yes your contribution does help. Our fishing license is probably the only tax we pay that 100% of the monies go back to the resource. That is why some politicians hate it. That can't dip into the fund for buying cell phones and such.

[polliwog]

Anyone doubting what happens to a fishery that isn't regulated well need only look at the stripe bass fiasco up north, 15 or 20 yrs ago.  I saw the total halt to bass fishing for 10yrs to recoup fishery.  It made a good recovery and is now again going the wrong way with bad control of size restrictions and no closure when the fish are in their spawning time.  Big spawners are allowed to be killed in their spawn areas. Totally miss managed.  There is very little enforcement for poaching which happens all the time.  I hope Florida fisheries will step up and do the right thing here.

[Capt. Troy]

Been busy talking to many of the senior guides around here. Along with the other things mentioned, it seems that poaching and post mortality due to porpoise behavior are also of concern. I know of areas right now that the porpoises have  become so conditioned that they follow boats. This is happening all along the west coast. Really hard for a guide to pull off of a good bite even though they know every single fish they release is getting eaten.

 

When you see this day and day out it's concerning. There are areas right now I can't get my power pole down before flipper stages out right behind me. They have also set up on many of the area fishing piers and hang out all day. They have eaten at least 5 cast nets that I know of this week at the Potter Pier. Hopefully with the help of the CCA the FGA and the Snook foundation we can get the FWC to start looking at where the fishery is headed. The effort from population growth and effort shift due to very strict regulations offshore is really taxing the inshore resource. Not to mention habitat loss and water quality. Kind of crazy being on the northern range of the snook population the guides and anglers around here are catching more snook than trout or reds. That shows me that the snook management plan is working. The trout/red management, not so much. I know the FWC looked at taking trout off the commercial market several years back. Maybe it's time to take another shot at that. I can see no reason to let our trophy trout of over 20 inches be harvested at a commercial rate of 75 fish per restricted specie holder. Not to mention those trophy trout produce the more robust spawning effort.

[Big Dave]

Troy, I've read that the porpoises are so smart they can distinguish the unique sounds of particular boats and skiffs.  Sounds like they are really dialed in up in your area.  In the ENP, the problem is with sharks poaching snook and tarpon if the fisherman is not careful and quick.  

[JEM]

It is hard to believe that in Florida, that there is still allowed to be a commercial fishery for seatrout!!!!!!   Heck, you might as well go ahead and open up a commercial fishery for sailfish!!!!!