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General disarray

Losing power

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Well if you were part of my "prop and RPM" thread I found my issue - I had a single injector clogged and not firing.

Wow what a difference was able to turn about 5200 RPM and get to 53 MPH and it came out of the hole like a jet ski. 

Then we had a problem . Ran the boat for about 8 miles mid throttle and tested the top end 1-2x didn't notice too much difference. Parked the boat came back out an hour later went to power up and noticed it didnt come out of the hole quite like it did earlier and I was only able to turn about 4800 and 49ish MPH. I tried running the opposite way too negating wind but same results. 

I'm thinking VST. Any other ideas? Whats the chance of a cylinder not firing. Motor is an 2004 200 HPDI Vmax-  Here is what was just done:

Service:
6 new spark plugs

both low pressure fuel pumps
new racor
new filter in the clear cylinder
all 6 injectors cleaned.

Medium pressure filter and VST were NOT changed

Fuel:
Existing fuel with Ring free- just had added some marine 360 stabil (called yamaha and they said it was good to use). Checked Racor and zero water in it.

One thing I did notice is after starting it back up I did get a few seconds of the 2 stroke smoke even after just running it an hour ago

Thoughts?

 
 
 

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Pretty simple. Drain the vst tank. Remove the 3 bolts holding it on so it is easier to remove filter. Then just remove the screws on top to drop the pan. I think there is a small hose you have to remove to give yourself some room. 

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Awesome. I am really hoping thats it because it put a smile on my face when I powered up that first time. I mean I can't imagine I would already be a cylinder down again right? How would I test that if so?

 

 

Also do you know torque specs for those 3 bolts?

 

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3 minutes ago, Tall Tails said:

Back when I had an HPDI V-Max I had a power loss issue as you describe. It was the VST. That filter in there was brown with fuel resin gunk. Changed it and issue was resolved. 

Your lips to Gods ears. I can't take much more after just dropping $1400

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When servicing injector pumps  it is critical to do everything  at one time.  ALL FILTERS SHOULD BE CHANGED. If there was trash in an old filter it can clog a new  or serviced injector fairly quickly. 

The big question when servicing  injectors on an hpdi is did they change the small mystery filters in the high pressure pump.  Not hard to do when changing injectors but a lot of trouble on its own.

Dropping a cylinder can also be due to no spark. Either a bad wire or the jacket the plug connects to. Ignition coils can also be a culprit.

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if you had a clogged injector everything up stream should have been cleaned/filters replaced when the injectors were cleaned.

After servicing the complete fuel system boat needs to be rum with a mechanical gauge on the medium pressure pump,

and lap top hooked up to verify high pressure fuel is in spec. Ask your tech what the med and high pressure numbers were, if they dont know

find a new shop before you lean out the powerhead

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1 hour ago, smilemaker said:

When servicing injector pumps  it is critical to do everything  at one time.  ALL FILTERS SHOULD BE CHANGED. If there was trash in an old filter it can clog a new  or serviced injector fairly quickly. 

The big question when servicing  injectors on an hpdi is did they change the small mystery filters in the high pressure pump.  Not hard to do when changing injectors but a lot of trouble on its own.

Dropping a cylinder can also be due to no spark. Either a bad wire or the jacket the plug connects to. Ignition coils can also be a culprit.

it was definitely dropping due to the injector - flow report showed half output. Spark plugs were all changed on this last go as well.  

 

Also I doubt the HP mystery filters were changed

 

Also I don’t know if this helps but the original issue stemmed from water in the fuel I Belive- not to say it couldn’t be trash or it’s probably not any better but at any rate there is no more water in the fuel

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48 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

if you had a clogged injector everything up stream should have been cleaned/filters replaced when the injectors were cleaned.

After servicing the complete fuel system boat needs to be rum with a mechanical gauge on the medium pressure pump,

and lap top hooked up to verify high pressure fuel is in spec. Ask your tech what the med and high pressure numbers were, if they dont know

find a new shop before you lean out the powerhead

Yeah I’m starting to get the feeling they stumbled through this. I know the injectors were serviced by a third party with full flow reports so I would imagine that the injector filters were done

 

i do know the Vst filters were not changed everything pre -vst was. 

Should I change Vst give it another rip to see how it goes or should I not move it until I have that answer and if they don’t know get it in another shop? Anything I can do to know if it’s running lean such as see if I get a temp alarm?

 

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Starting off with everything clean and verifying fuel pressures is the only way to know for sure.

Anything else is a gamble, when we get a HPDI in with running issues compression test and fuel pressure check is first thing done.

 

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Other question is if I do the VST and the problem persists showing it’s the mystery filters- would a mechanic then want to redo everything I already did like the VSt? Or would it then point specific knowing that everything except that has been changed?

 

To add some clarity I do not see any surging or sudden drops its just like the motor won't go over the rpm like its maxed out or over propped. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Starting off with everything clean and verifying fuel pressures is the only way to know for sure.

Anything else is a gamble, when we get a HPDI in with running issues compression test and fuel pressure check is first thing done.

 

You aren’t in central Florida are you?

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7 hours ago, General disarray said:

Dang. You would have had some business. Should probably just tackle the VST and HP mystery filters. There are only 2 in the 200 right?

go on line and check for a good 5 start yamaha mechanic in your area...they have specific training and will insure the job is done correctly.

Dc

 

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4 hours ago, ChrisB said:

The 200 Vmax is a big block 3.3 so you have the double pumps.

https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi-mystery-filters/

https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi/

 

Sounds good from what I’ve folllowed on other forums it seems like a straight forward job. Thinking to do them all then bring it to the master mechanic for pressure test and run through

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1 hour ago, fin-addict said:

thought the 200 was the same as the 150 block, told it was awhile back.

Actually I just went out and checked. Single pump - so thats the one with the one filter in the pump block and then the other underneath kind of hidden right? See attached photo

 

Also was recommended to get the YDS software and check these items myself. I am thinking to do that for $60 and see if I can see the pressure drop off. if its at the rail and after the VST I know where my issue is. I am thinking to go through these minimum steps before brining it to a mechanic. Keep in mind I JUST picked it up this week from having the above listed done to the tune of $1400. Needless to say it won't be going back to that guy - in fact wifes dad knows one of the local master mechanics.

1) Change VST and Mid pressure - as some have stated needs to be done and will be good for me to know and do anyways

2) Check pressure on rail and VST using YDS 

3) If rail pressure is down then change the mystery filters, if rail pressure is up probably just take to the mechanic.

 

I have some level of technical skill and really should learn to do these things to save my self some serious money long term. Outboards just tend to make me nervous as I haven't really ever worked on one - PLUS the high cost if you are wrong and get stuck on the water.

IMG_5031.jpg.48e10069b9741849b7ac0b04d1c606b5.jpg

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I think I have a game plan -

1) Vst/mid filters replace - test to see if power restored
2) if same symptom test fuel rail pressure - fuel rail pressure good bring back to guy to redo for his mess up not changing the filters
3) if rail pressure down do basket filters
4) if problem persists Yamaha master mechanic here I come

Thoughts? 

Now to find Vst, mid filter, and gasket when all locals are closed until after jan 1. Anyone know simyamahas holiday hours
 
 

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7 hours ago, fin-addict said:

thought the 200 was the same as the 150 block, told it was awhile back.

2005 and up the Vmax 200 was a 3.3 he must have an early model if he has a single pump 2.6

 

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