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whichwaysup

Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

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Here are two,

 

1)  http://fullthrottlepowerboats.com/about-full-throttle/ Jack Barsh   Does fiberglass work.   Jack is the one that did Boattronics Pathfinder in North Florida. He did a post on it here a while back.

 

2)  I have used Ben @ boat doctor in Tampa (He builds http://sheaffermarine.com/) for my screw ups and am pleased with the results.

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The surveyor was correct....this is not an uncommon problem. "Things" happen while certain boats are being built that come to light after that boat is used. I've seen it dozens of times. 

Getting a pre-purchase survey and/or inspection on any piece of property you buy (land, home, plane, auto, boat, rv, etc) can be well worth the money! 

Click on the link in my signature and call Bob @ IMS. Also, try calling Ricky @ Scarborough Boatworks to see if he knows anyone in NC. Tell Ricky that Paul @ Merritt's referred you. 

Good luck! 

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6 hours ago, whichwaysup said:

I realized I never showed the external view of the crack - I marked the edges of it with the black - you can see it runs about 11' from just in front of the port trim tab forward, right along the strake.  

20171204_102353.jpg

20171204_102356.jpg

That bunk could be flexing and allowing that bunk mount to really push into the hull? I had a boat hull get damaged years ago from improper trailer setup.

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Well darn guess it doesn’t hurt to ask

Maybe I missed it, but do you think it can be fixed from outside? Or think the cap has to come off?  Also don’t remember if I mentioned this on this thread or another:

I looked at a Pathfinder last summer that had a delaminated stringer repaired at factory. I assumed the cap had been pulled off and stringer fixed but when I called to ask them about it they told me that it had been repaired from outside. They said that was normal for the repair due to the difficulty pulling the cap. I was a lil shocked but he told me they never had one come back after the repair

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I don't understand how they get a proper bond by injecting something into the damaged stringer?  Sounds like a quick fix too me.

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Just a short story from the seller's perspective. Several years ago I briefly owned an 18MA (about six months). I bought it without a full survey; just visual inspection and mechanic's engine check.

It was a beautiful boat but ended up being just a bit too small for my needs so I put it on here and on Boat Trader. A nice young guy came to look, made me a verbal offer, we went for a ride, done deal.

I strongly suggested to him he check the boat out, bring a mechanic, etc. I had told him 100% the truth about how long I owned the boat and why I was selling, and that I was not comfortable making any promises or assurances since I had owned it for such a short time and put maybe 20 hours on it.

When he came back to do the deal he brought his father-in-law and, again, I strongly suggested they check the boat out. They said "No, we're good." Paid me cash, signed the papers, and away they went.

A week later I get a call and a text from the young guy showing a bow-to-stern crack along the inside of one of the chines - very similar looking to the pic posted by the OP, although smaller and harder to see because it was inside facing the keel.

I've sold a few boats and this has never happened. What do I do? Was the crack there when I sold it to him and we both missed it? Did he hit something in the week he owned the boat and cause the crack?

In the end, I helped him find a glass guy and paid half the $1000 "repair." I still wonder if I did the right thing, but it felt right.

A survey could have provided clarity for both of us.

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On 1/13/2018 at 2:39 PM, justfish said:

Well darn guess it doesn’t hurt to ask

Maybe I missed it, but do you think it can be fixed from outside? Or think the cap has to come off?  Also don’t remember if I mentioned this on this thread or another:

I looked at a Pathfinder last summer that had a delaminated stringer repaired at factory. I assumed the cap had been pulled off and stringer fixed but when I called to ask them about it they told me that it had been repaired from outside. They said that was normal for the repair due to the difficulty pulling the cap. I was a lil shocked but he told me they never had one come back after the repair

.My PF had the issue many years ago.......they know exactly where the stringers are placed to the inch and they use some type of super bond liquid weld....a series of small holes are made and they literally pump several gallons of the product along the stringers....repair the outside of the hull....and it was rock solid 

.

But, again....MBC stood 100% behind the problem and wanted my 100% satisfaction.....this is why I have now owned 4 MBC boats.

Kudos to Scott, Skip, Ray and the team.....

 

DC

 

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Was that under warranty ? 

Since they closed the repair shop, I doubt they will do anything for this being out of warranty even if someone wanted to pay. Maybe they can provide a diagram of stringers or something for a repair guy

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43 minutes ago, justfish said:

Was that under warranty ? 

Since they closed the repair shop, I doubt they will do anything for this being out of warranty even if someone wanted to pay. Maybe they can provide a diagram of stringers or something for a repair guy

Yes, it was under warranty.....

Check with the factory...there were some local guyz years ago in Ft. Pierce / Vero who were specializing on MHP boats for out of warranty repair and upgrades....

 

dc

 

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Hey all - 

The saga continues . . . I am amazed by how many different opinions there are on what caused this and what can be done to fix it.  It seems that the ONLY people who think it wasn't caused by any impact of some kind are the insurance company and the surveyor, but that's water under the bridge now.

I reached out to (member) Bob at Inshore Marine Specialties to get his thoughts and I have to give him some serious props.  Here's a guy down in S. Florida who is not only willing to take time out of his day to help a guy hundreds of miles away, he's also the ONLY guy that has given me advice that actually got me closer to a solution.   His advice?   Simple - clean the bilge area thoroughly and see if there is more to the story than you think there is.

Brilliant - and not a single other person who's looked at the boat asked me to do that, and I (not the sharpest tool in the shed) didn't even think of it myself.  But when I did it - Eureka, the problem gets clearer.

Attached are some photos of the same area that you have seen earlier in this thread.  Now that it is clean, we're not 100% sure that there is actually any cracking on the top of the stringer at all.  What appeared to be cracks MAY just be a seam in the fiberglass . . .or it may be a crack.  Even with my Go Pro in there, I can't tell for certain.  Some angles it looks like a crack, in others, a seam.  

What IS new is that there is DEFINITE cracking along the base of the stringer all the way from the transom extending forward to the bilge pump.  It seems to stop there and there isn't any other sign of damage visible forward of that.   The crack shows much more separation near the transom than it does going forward.

So, how about some opinions - any thoughts on cause and fix?

Pic 1:  Top of stringer, potential crack barely visible on left side.

Pic 2:  Looking at the stringer from a side view, looking 45 degrees forward and to the port side.  Cracking very visible in the base of the stringer.

Pic 3:  Close up of Pic 2, cracking visible both along the base of the stringer and running from point to point of the outside edges.

Pic 4:  A close up of the area where the stringer meets the transom - port stern corner

Pic 5:  A view looking forward towards the first transverse (from the stern).  Damage doesn't (visibly) extend past the bilge pump.

All remaining pics - top of stringer.  Is that a crack or not????

Top of Stringer looking forward 1.png

Cracks along stringer broad view 2.png

Cracks along stringer view along transom 2.png

looking straight at transom, port corner.png

stern to  bow view of transverse no damage 3.png

Top of Stringer 1.png

Top of Stringer looking more towards port.png

Top of Stringer looking forward 2.png

Cracks along stringer broad view 2.png

cracking outside corner to outside corner of stringer.png

Cracks along stringer zoomed in 2.png

Cracks along stringer broad view.png

Transom, stringer connection top of stringer port side.png

Transom, stringer connection top of stringer port side 2.png

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26 minutes ago, whichwaysup said:

I reached out to (member) Bob at Inshore Marine Specialties to get his thoughts and I have to give him some serious props.  Here's a guy down in S. Florida who is not only willing to take time out of his day to help a guy hundreds of miles away, he's also the ONLY guy that has given me advice that actually got me closer to a solution.   His advice?   Simple - clean the bilge area thoroughly and see if there is more to the story than you think there is.

Sure does look like a cracked stringer to me.

But whoa, whoa, whoa.....Bob isn't the ONLY guy who gave you advice to reach a solution. ;) 

Although I didn't tell you to clean anything, I did tell you to have the cap pulled, re-glass everything, re-wire, re-plumb, re-tank then put her back together for years of trouble-free use! It's not the cheapest way to go but it's definitely a route to take in order to gain ultimate piece of mind. As you dilly-dally around with trying to determine the extent of damage, you are missing out on enjoying time with your kids and "Fishing The Legend"!! 

DISCLAIMER: I absolutely love spending other people's money on their boats. Just ask Dino! :D

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6 minutes ago, conocean said:

 

But whoa, whoa, whoa.....Bob isn't the ONLY guy who gave you advice to reach a solution. ;) 

Although I didn't tell you to clean anything, I did tell you to have the cap pulled, re-glass everything, re-wire, re-plumb, re-tank then put her back together for years of trouble-free use! It's not the cheapest way to go but it's definitely a route to take in order to gain ultimate piece of mind. As you dilly-dally around with trying to determine the extent of damage, you are missing out on enjoying time with your kids and "Fishing The Legend"!! 

LOL - yes, sorry, I overstated that.    I meant, of all the fiberglass guys/surveyors/insurance guys that looked at it, he's the first one that actually said "clean it up so I can see what's really going on."   I'm just amazed that nobody else felt the need to see it cleaned up to make a diagnosis.  

As for pulling the cap, Bob (and several others) were pretty adamant that doing so would be a last resort and could actually cause more damage than good.  I was surprised, but it does mean that the work will have to be done by removing the port live well, which will be interesting to replace.

As for dilly  dallying, I hear you.  This is driving me nuts.  The first fiberglass guy who was going to do the work jacked the price up by 1200 from his original estimate, then went completely AWOL on me.  I had another guy come out and look at it and, to his credit, say "I'm not fixing something until I know what caused it, because I don't want the issue to come back later."  

I've got two other guys looking at it now for estimates and opinions.  I REALLY miss having my boat.  It's killing me.

 

 

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Looks cracked to me, I think at this point I would look at the value of the boat vs cost of repair because like conocean said, I don't see how you can properly repair that without at least cutting the cockpit floor out. Tough break, brother.

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Actually, the good news is that it won't require the cockpit floor to be cut - should be fixable through the live well.   

But yeah, tough break.  That's life, I suppose.   You win some, you lose some, but you sure do learn a lot along the way!  

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4 hours ago, J.N said:

If this happens to my boat the cap is coming off or it's getting sold as is. 

Amen JN! 

Gus, did you look to see if the other stringer is cracking or lifting? 

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I'll hit these questions one at a time:

1) Cap coming off - I was originally going down this path as well, the thought being, "If you are going to do major surgery, go big."   However, every fiberglass guy I've talked to have strongly discouraged doing so, with several indicating that it can actually cause more stress cracks and more damage than it will fix.  Since the tank and wiring are in good shape and the damage is concentrated in one area, it doesn't make sense in this case.  

2)  The other side - I did get pictures of the other side and there is absolutely no evidence of any issue on that side externally or internally.  I spoke with a well respected repair shop last night and he confirmed that this was caused by a manufacturing defect, so it being concentrated in one area isn't unusual.  It's not a design flaw, but an issue that occurred in manufacturing that happened with that particular stringer.   I will be taking a closer look at the other side to be sure, but so far, there is no evidence of an issue.

3)  The fix - Steve, I don't know yet what the fix will be, because it depends so much on the cause and extent of the damage.  The consistent theme from those who've looked at it is that the fix will be done through the livewell, re-attaching the stringer and reinforcing the entire area.  However, everyone has said at some point or another, that the fix will be determined after the full extent of the damage has been assessed.

4)   Fixing vs. selling as is - Until I get a hard quote, I can't really make this decision.  I like the boat, intend to use it for a long time, and it fits my fishing needs.  If it's a break even between fixing or selling/replacing with something newer, I'll probably just fix it - the devil you know vs. the devil you don't, right?

We'll see, stay tuned.   Once I transition from "research" mode to "fix" mode, I'll start a new thread.  Hopefully this thread is helpful or at least entertaining for everyone.

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We are ONLY LOOKING at pictures. When boat is actually in front of you to inspect, then you can make a final about what has to be done. If cracking is only located in the rear section NO REASON to pull cap other to repair a thousand stress cracks from doing so. I have seen this before and not uncommon.

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Bob, I hope I don't upset you by doing this, but I think it is worth calling this out. 

I've worked with a lot of business owners in my time and I can't think of many that I've been as impressed as I have been with you.    Some strange guy calls you up out of the blue one day, who isn't even in the same state as your business, and asks to pick your brain about a boat issue.  You could have, very understandably, told me to find someone local to talk to, but instead you spent over half an hour on the phone with me talking through this and sharing your expertise.  As if that wasn't enough, you followed up with me well after closing time last night to ask more questions and share some additional thoughts.  You asked for more pictures to continue to help me figure out what I'm dealing with.  

I'll admit that this issue has led to some sleepless nights, trying to figure out what to do, what I'm dealing with, and trying to ignore the little voice in my head that keeps saying, "you're an idiot, you're an idiot, you're an idiot for buying this boat."   The last two days have been much easier because, for the first time, I'm starting to feel like I'm getting a better idea of what this issue is.

It's a long way down to S. Florida from Wilmington, NC, but it's a drive I'm beginning to very seriously contemplate.   Thanks for all you've done, I now know why your name comes up so frequently on this forum.

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What Bob said is true. Nobody fondles my boat except Bob! It's amazing he still puts up with me after all these years!! xD 

However, if I were in your position then I'd be thinking about.....1) Safety. 2) Age of the boat. 3) Years I plan to keep it. 

With my kids aboard regularly, the cost to make sure the boat is 100% structurally sound would be the last thing I'd be thinking about. 

The tank, wiring and plumbing has roughly a 20+/- year useful & safe working life. It's only a matter of time before you have to start addressing all 3. 

Just my .02cents. 

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For what it is worth (free advice, maybe nothing!  LOL), I think I would SERIOUSLY consider taking the boat to someone who has worked on this specific brand and model, and I mean someone who has worked on a bunch of them.  And I mean for this specific TYPE of repair.  Yes, NC builds a lot of boats, and has a lot of fiberglass repair shops.  But very few, if any, virtually specialize in Mavericks.  I towed my boat all the way to Stuart, FL to a specific shop specifically referred by MBG for specific repairs.   It was worth every mile, and then some.    I think you would find it the same case with Bob at Inshore Marine if you decide to repair!!!!!!!!!  If you are going to do it, why not do it right the first time!

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