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Nag Juice

Master Angler Production

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51 minutes ago, Nag Juice said:

189 Egret with 18 Master Angler

It may be useful in rough waters I guess, but that canoe-type nose entry on the Egret is just ugly IMO.  And, some of us (ok, a lot of us) do need the wife's approval on a boat's looks.  The MA has a good balance with the sharp vee entry, but it still has nice lines.

I looked at the 2008 Maverick brochure, but could not find info on the deadrise of the MA hulls.  Anyone?

Copy of brochure here:

MaverickBro08.pdf

Egret pic to show the forward entry.

189_inflight_4.jpg

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I think part of the allure of the MA, is the fact they don't make them anymore, so it becomes a conversion. The other larger part is, the boat itself and the ride!

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48 minutes ago, fsusteve said:

it's 100% ride and capability, I've had mine 5 years and it still impresses me every trip.

Completely agree.   I stumbled on my first Master Angler by accident.  I was just looking for a good all-around flats boat and happened to find a Master Angler - which I had done ZERO research on.   I liked the lines, but expected it to be like every other flats boat I'd owned/been on.   We headed out of the St. John's river on a nasty, choppy, busy day for the wet test.  I was thinking "this is gonna be wet and ugly" but was blown away by the way the hull handled the chop.  I would have walked away from the boat had it not been for that ride.   It turned out to be one of the best purchases I can remember.  I'm on my second one now and can't count the number of passengers that have commented in surprise on the boat's capabilities.  

A quick google search of "best handling flats boat" tells the story.

 

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Same here. I had a moment yesterday while running up Banks Channel in a 15-20kt head wind with slight chop. Gus knows how I run. I slow down for every wave/wake and get the lightest impact possible due to years of heavy impacts and abuse on my lower back and knees. Its also because I try to minimize damage on the boat. I was feeling good yesterday and decided to push it. Smurf got right on top at 40mph and felt like I was on a freshly graded dirt road. 

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:29 AM, nhinshoreangler said:

Just curious, how does the classic Pathfinder 2200v hull differ from the 21 MA hull? How would you compare the two rides?

21MA and 22pathy are similar hulls but are NOT the same.  the pathy does not have a running pad like the 21 MA.  I own a 21 and have ridden in many classic 22's.  To me the 21 ride is better.  I believe it has to do with the running pad and the fact your center of gravity is farther back on the 21. 

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22 hours ago, Lap it Up said:

21MA and 22pathy are similar hulls but are NOT the same.  the pathy does not have a running pad like the 21 MA.  I own a 21 and have ridden in many classic 22's.  To me the 21 ride is better.  I believe it has to do with the running pad and the fact your center of gravity is farther back on the 21. 

 

I think as well it's because you are sitting vs Standing in PF22...most the time in MA21, riding with a lower center of gravity on your rear and in a PF22, you tend to "stand and hold on" in a chop....I've ridden in a MA 21 with my buddy Peter Babb and it's a rocket ship with his new SHO 250....

 

dc

 

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Was at the ft lauderdale boat show today and talked to a maverick rep, he said maybe the 21 red fisher would/could make a comeback but not the 21 MA.

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3 minutes ago, fsusteve said:

Was at the ft lauderdale boat show today and talked to a maverick rep, he said maybe the 21 red fisher would/could make a comeback but not the 21 MA.

Thats good for your resale value.

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10 hours ago, fsusteve said:

, he said maybe the 21 red fisher would/could make a comeback

There was an interview awhile back that made mention of a new 21RF.

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To the Branding discussion...  if Mav did go back and produce the MA 18.5 and/or 21, i would certainly keep the Maverick name on the boat but in order to continue with the HPX Tech Pole Skiff Brand, They could call it the “HD” series to differentiate the two Brands/series. 

Maverick 18.5 HD Master Angler

Maverick 21 HD Master Angler

I’ve ridden in both  my Bro-in-law has the 18ma.  Spent a few weeks in FL with guides running MA and PF to decide which direction I wanted to go.  I preferred the MA but felt like the PF was more versatile so went with thw PF  still love the MA layout  

 

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I don't think it will ever happen.  I'm guessing they tossed the molds,  and the cost to reproduce won't make it worth it.  Just my thoughts.  

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The issue isn't the mold.  The mold can be reproduced by popping it off an old boat.  The issue has always been the cost to produce.  Charlie Johnson said it himself.  With todays material costs a Kevlar 21 MA would be around $70-$80k.  Most rookies that don't know better will choose a cheaper bay boat thinking they can get more for their money. They would be competing against themselves. 

What surprises me is that no other fly by night boat company has popped a mold of the bottom and re-badged it.  The Lake and Bay bottom has been copied by numerous companies over the years.

 

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I think MBG puts a lot more into a mold today than just splashing a copy of an old hull, and that doesn't include all the topside parts that need molding. The topside molds would need changing to freshen up the look for a more modern layout. So in my mind I see the cost to reproduce the 18 or 21 MA as the same cost to design a brand new model.  I don't think they have to use Kevlar, they don't use it in the Redfisher 18 or Pathfinder 22, both compare to the 18 and 21 MA. I feel they just don't see a return on all that work and upfront cost.

But Hey what do I know, Charlie Johnson is running a pretty good business. Turning profit is what its all about, not making people drool over cool boats!

(whichwaysup, I know you like to drool)

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Profit is profit, if they can make more money selling 100 pathfinders than 50 pathfinders and 50 mavericks what do you think they will do? That's why intrepid stopped making the flats boat. In order to make it worth it they would have to charge too much. 

A good example would be Sterling/Shearwater. They have the bay boats and flats boats together. I can tell you for a fact the x22 shearwater outsells the sterling 22 flats by a good amount (x22 is bay boat cap). A moderately loaded sterling or shearwater puts you over 60k, load it down with options and its over 80 closer to high 80's. That's loaded 23hps money and I think if MBG were to bring it back they might cannibalize each other. I haven't seen their books so I wouldn't know for sure of course. I work with a boat dealer and bay boats are much more popular, 1 out of 1000 people come in looking for a flats boat. 

 

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I agree with everything said by Hurricane & Linesider, from a "strictly business" standpoint.  However, a little excitement and emotion is also good for the boat business.  MBG does not need to sponsor a racing team, but it's always a good idea to have one Go-Fast HP model in your lineup.  You know... the one that the Pros on TV use to flex their muscle in tournaments and fishing shows.  What about some competition for this 21 Hybrid model (brand name omitted - actually 21'9" LOA with the integrated setback transom)?

That's why I was excited to hear of a possible 21 MA comeback!

 

21_Hybrid1b.jpg

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Yellowfin and Egret have there small segment in this size. Egret seems to have hit a market with what they did on the 210 Moccasin. They made a stand up, open concept "hybrid" which cost less than the 2011 21' flats. It's always about the money! IMO any 21' "flats" boat is going to have a very, very small market for the price it would take to make a new one today. Who's the customer for a 21' flats today? Who's going to spend $70+K on a flats boat today with all the other options (Pathfinders w/same draft) out there? As much as I would love to see it happen I don't see a market out there to turn a profit off of it. Who knows, maybe they can manufacture a less expensive  21' that's affordable for the masses. IMO less is more, not more for more. Materials get better every year. Lots of other type manufactures are trying to build things that more people can afford. I too want to drool! Find a way! 

In my next life I"ll take a  21 MA and a Pathfinder 25 Hybrid! 

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which kinda begs the question, then why build a 21 redfisher? Isn't basically, in a broad sense, the same thing? It's not like they'll build it for much less and the demographics would be the same.

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