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Ethanol Related Email I Received

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Thought this might be of some interest to most here:

From: Fuel-Testers

Date: June 1st, 2009

To: FL dealers, distributors, marinas and customers

Re: Increased Prevalence of Contaminated Gas Being Sold in Florida.

We are writing to inform you that we have recently received a dramatic increase in the number of contaminated gas reports from the State of Florida.

It concerns us that gas-caused engine damage continues to rise in this state. We would expect that by now the gas stations & fuel distributors would have resolved the common issues that often occur early during a widespread transition to E10 ethanol blends.

It is primarily because the E10 gas is "contaminated" at time of purchase, that Florida has an above average incidence of "gas-caused" engine damage complaints.

Even boaters* (at highest risk for gas water absorption) can safely manage E10 when fuel is of high quality and all simple precautions are followed. E10 Tips/Precautions: http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html

* Ethanol-free gasoline is the preferred fuel type by most

marine, motorcycle, recreational, lawn and small gas-powered engine manufacturers and cl***ic cars.

http://www.fueltestkit.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html

We recommend you continue to advise your customers to check gas at the pump (visual and % alcohol and water presence), and remind them to submit formal complaints to Florida's petroleum inspectors whenever it appears poor quality fuel was the cause of damage to their engine.

In Florida, gas contamination is reported and investigated by:

Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services - Division of Standards - Petroleum Inspection

Telephone: (850) 488-9740 Field Office Telephone: (850) 487-2634 Fax : (850) 922-6655

Address: Bureau of Petroleum Inspection, 3125 Conner Blvd. Lab 1, Mail Stop L29 Tallah***ee, FL 32399-1650

Only through careful surveillance and increased regulation will these issues resolve.

Reports we have received include:

1. Private marine pumps (exempt from E10) unknowingly dispensing gasoline containing ethanol, despite higher-priced NON-ethanol gas being purchased (delivery error).

2. Gas sold that is grossly contaminated with water (phase separated) and sub-octane, due to improper storage and management by the station operator.

3. Gasoline purchased that contained far above the 10% * legal maximum for ethanol.

Usually a careless blending error; But some claim ethanol tax credits and subsidies encourage over-blending in an attempt to increase profits.

4. "Dirty" gasoline due to lack of storage tank preparation (removal of all accumulated dirt, rust and sediment from tank walls and water) prior to E10 switch.

5. We also suspect, based on consumer reports, that misuse and overuse of certain additive products (due to false and misleading advertising) is contributing to the increased incidence in damage.

It is important to realize that gas additives found in retail stores do not "remove" water - They just delay phase separation and engine is still running on lean, water-diluted fuel, with lower energy and octane. Use of additives that contain strong solvents, cleansers, and alcohol are contraindicated for use with ethanol-blends. Purchasing quality fuel and replacing it often (every 2-4 weeks) can prevent most E10 problems.

A re-useable, portable Fuel Test Kit enables you to avoid use of contaminated fuel by accurately and quickly determining the presence and exact % of ethanol. Our test kits now include Quik Check solution which will instantly confirm pumps without an E10 sticker are actually water and alcohol-free.

Special Limited Time Offer - Free Shipping for Florida Residents - Click on links below to order:

Order 1-9 Test Kits http://www.fueltestkit.com/order_florida.html

Dealer/Volume Discount - 10 or more Kits http://www.fueltestkit.com/volume_sales_florida.html

(To obtain free shipping order must be placed on Florida order pages listed above or by phone).

We hope that increased testing and reporting of "bad" gasoline will lead to faster resolution of the problems Florida is currently experiencing.

Feel free to contact us if we can be of any ***istance.

G. Alexander, Owner

Fuel-Testers, a division of MLR Solutions

* A waiver was submitted by ethanol producers to the EPA in April 2009 to increase allowable ethanol content from 10 to 15% (E15). Since all engine manufacturers approve of only up to 10% we strongly urge you to send objections to the EPA before the July 20th deadline. More info: http://www.fueltestkit.com/petition_e15.html

-------------------------------------------

Fuel-Testers, www.FuelTestKit.com

PH: (678) 935-1998

Order Fuel Test Kits AFTK

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Skip, I would like to make a suggestion to make this thread a "Sticky" so that it can easily be found when needed, especially the contamination report phone numbers. Great info!

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There’s something definitely fishy about this email and website! Both the email and the website are nothing more than an advertisement for a product they happen to sell - and they are targeting Florida residents. It is fraught with inconsistencies and misinformation. Read the disclaimer on manufacturer’s warnings from the site:

“* Note: Marine data listed above from report in 2003 by Ethanol RFA and Hermann & ***ociates;

Since then (2004 to 2009) almost all marine manufacturers now allow use of E10 fuel, although several still issue strong warnings against it's use and/or specific precautions necessary.â€

Almost all?

This stuff is a little pricey, isn’t it? Let’s see 3 ml of Quik-check (love that name) solution sells for only $3.95 PLUS $3.00 S&H, for a total of $6.95 for a 3 mil bottle - holy crap - do you realize how much that is? 3 ml = 0.1 oz..therefore, 1.0 oz of this crap will cost you $69.50!!! $69.50 per ounce - that’s $8,896 a gallon!!! They probably pay about $40 for a 55-gallon drum of this garbage...hmmm...anyone know what this stuff is? Proprietary, secret formula? I emailed a request for an MSDS to the company...should be interesting to see if they send me one. My bet is that it is only food coloring.

Did you read the instructions for use? I could just see me at Abdul’s on a busy Friday night, with an angry mob of customers tied up behind me, waiting for a pump...let’s see...put some water in a test tube...now let’s put some gas in the test tube...now, a little bit of the expensive blue stuff...shake, shake, shake...now hold it upright for 10 minutes...Hey blow it out yer a**, buddy - I’ve got to test this stuff to see if it’s any good before I start pumping...yeah, right...

As far as alcohol percentage, how accurate do you think this little test kit is? And if the results come up a little over 10%, what are you going to do? Go somewhere else and try again? Report the gasoline dealer?

Hell, you can test gasoline for phase separation by putting some in a clear jar, and letting it sit in the sun for 10 minutes - if it’s contaminated, you will see the water and ethanol precipitate out.

If you feel you must test your gasoline for ethanol content, get yourself a 100 ml gl*** stoppered graduated cylinder. Put 100 ml of gasoline into the cylinder. Add 10 ml of water to the cylinder and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Allow the mixture to stand for 2 minutes. Read the volume of the precipitate. 17.2 ml would indicate a 10% ethanol content. Accurate? No, but it should be every bit as accurate as fuel-testers...not to mention cheaper...

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You make a good point and i wish i was i knowledgeble on gas as you are, but heck, i will drop a a couple of bucks on the test ($25) and see or at least get an idea on what i am putting into my boat. if its a scam, folks be glad is was me that wasted my money not you. I will let you know how it goes

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I agree with bogmud...this is just scare tactics to sell a product. There is a big difference between phase separation, ethanol-containing fuel, and contamination(particulate matter, etc).

Ethanol is NOT a contaminant! 99 times out of 100 (or more) you wont have any issues. Ethanol is a solvent, and it becomes a problem when you switch from non- ethanol fuel because it cleans the varnish off the inside of the tank that has been building up (from mdta or non ethanol fuel). Without the 10 micron filters these particles can wreak havoc in the injectors and carbs.

Thus if you have a brand new tank and boat....no worries on this problem. However, ethanol also attracts/holds moisture much easier than the old additive, therefore the need for a Racor- type filter between engine and tank AND keeping as full a tank as possible. Most of this is rehash from before, but thought someone might want to see it again.....TS

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E stands for EVIL. We as consumers are being duped.

The stuff is bad news for us boaters. I have burned hundreds of gallons of fuel this last 2 months in all 3 boats that I am using. I have been going through filters and have had several issues that I have never had before. The 24 PF I have sitting here now is acting up and I lost 300 rpm out of of my tourny boat all of a sudden. We have been supposedly getting non ethanol fuel from Jug creek marina for the last 4 weeks that has gone from 260 a gallon to 325 in 4 weeks.

I am at the point to just pump 10 percent water into my tank with some good fuel, if I could get it. I will call it W-10, and know what I am getting. }:(

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Skip,

Thanks ! for taking your time to make this information available to us.

I will be ordering a kit. Even though [color:blue]Boggy[/color] finds fault with the capitolist venture to thwart and refuse the bad fuel forced in to our outboard's for ingestion, there at the pump. I will be proactive, show and tell Big Brother operating the pump. Your socialist fuel is CRAP (Contaminated Refined Alcohol Petroleum).

I guess it's much more easy to B!T(H at the entrepeneur producing the test kit. Than to actually contact your Senator or Represenative in the Kremlin about killing your recrational fishing engine, vit das E-10.

Vat is se deal ? The whole nation is going to the mind set of "Kill the guy with a better idea" the one who might be making a Buck/Mark. He owe's it to you and it should be providen for nicht. Or, v'ell exposen you to zie authoritie.

Pffft ! I blinked out my monicle...

rk

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I saw that it is a private company trying to make a $. No biggie - it is cheap enough to try and see the results. The simple fact that Skip's post motivates us to test our fuel somehow is worth the post and the kits. I really don't think you have to stand there taking up room at the pump testing this stuff. The test can be done after and I would use it to simply identify and then periodically check a dealer of "good" fuel.

Anyway, all the diesel truck owners out there know that we have to sit and wait anyway as some Minivan Mommy, with a whole station full of pump choices, always chooses to tie up the one, or one of the very few, pumps for diesel as well. We could probably walk up while we wait and drain enough diesel from the hose from the previous diesel purchase to get the test done before fueling up!

I see a good purpose here:

1. It gets us thinking about DOING something about fuel quality

2. It gives us a way to check it ourselves and identify good dealers with consistently good fuel.

It's good info Skip and I am very appreciative, as is my Dad.

If you don't like the sounds of it and think you have better fuel testing ideas, then don't buy it. Simple enough....

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My intent on posting this was not to sell anything, just thought it was good information we all need to be aware of.

We have seen issues never seen before the introduction of this corn syrup, just trying to keep everyone tuned in.

Skip

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Are the marine engine manufacturers not trying to do anything about the problems with ethanol in gas?

By 'doing anything' I mean trying to get better regulations or controls on blending, or trying to get certain percentage of ethanol-free stations, etc?

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Not saying ethanol doesn't cause some problems guys, but I think its being blamed for a lot more than it actually does. Look at the disclaimer on the ethanol testing website: these are unsubstantiated reports. Read the report on the guy with 1997 twin Hondas who states that a week after switching to e-10 all 8 of his carbs were pitted and corroded! Sorry but that doesnt happen in a one week, and ethanol isn't a corrosive to metal.

Again, not saying it isn't causing problems, just saying many people's problems are due to something else. And if you dont like the stuff, PLEASE write your Congressman, Senators etc. If enough people complain, they will listen.

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My intent on posting this was not to sell anything, just thought it was good information we all need to be aware of.

We have seen issues never seen before the introduction of this corn syrup, just trying to keep everyone tuned in.

Skip

Good info Skip, this stuff is not like Vodka. I can taste it when someone waters down my booze. ;)

Those of us that travel around or even take that one vacation are at the mercy of what comes out of the pump we know nothing about.

It only takes one bad tank full to ruin the day.

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I have been told by someone who works on gas pumps and he told me cicle K has the sticker on there pump but does not have E-10. He said his company is the one that changes out the filters so the E-10 will work and they have not changed any of the Circle K pumps over. Just going by what he says. Take it for what its worth. I know thats what I run in my boat with no problems yet. :)

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I can tell you that the Circle K at MM 102 selling Shell most likely has E-10. Last year, when they remodeled the store, I spoke with the leader of a crew who were there cleaning the storage tanks. They stated that they were preparing for E-10.

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[color:black]Hello - I came across this thread via links-in report from my website. I kind of wish I hadn't because those here who are suggesting we make-up information to sell fuel test kits is so ridiculous. First of all I was not notified, nor approved a private email we sent to be posted online. While we support and commend anyone trying to help others by sharing information, we would have preferred a summary of our email, instead of an exact copy.

Ethanol (E10) has been around for decades - And Florida, one of the last states to do a switchover, has had more problems in the past year than most other states have had in the past 10!

Most engines can tolerate E10 when it contains below 10% legal limit and is water-free.

For 12 consecutive months Florida has rated #1 for the most reports of contaminated gas we received.

Most ironic, is that Florida also has the highest number of gas additive companies selling useless products to monopolize on the "ethanol scare".

Usually it's the same people who are clueless about ethanol (facts) that waste their money repeatedly buying gas additves, which often cause more harm than good.

On days like today, tired and hungry after spending the past 12 hours providing "free" information (phone email, etc.) I wonder why we've spent the past 5 years providing factual information to help the public?

There is not a single statement on our website that cannot be supported by reliable sources - When something is our "opinion" we clearly state it as such.

Before distorting statements from our website, why don't you simply ask for source?

I might sound a little cranky since I've spent the past 3 days (non-billable time) attempting to get more people to oppose E15 increase before the EPA deadline of July 20th - When we found out less than 1% of public sent opposition to the EPA we added a form to our website.

http://www.fueltestkit.com/complete_form_to_oppose_e15.html

Reality is that if E15 gets approved sales of fuel testers will soar - (12 states do not label pumps and ALL manufacturers only approve and warranty up to 10%).

So why have I spent so much time informing public about need to oppose E15 - Because it's the right thing to do -

And fortunately most people we encounter are very appreciative for help and information we provide.

Our fuel-testers ($10 and less) and fuel test kits ($15-$25.00) depending on quantity purchased, are re-useable and will last a lifetime.

There are cheaper testers, that are often inaccurate and use ink or labels that will wear-off after used a few times and we don't even feel the need to discuss these on our site- since those who foolishly purchase them always seem to find us later on...Our primary company is a consulting firm (20 years), when we started offering fuel-testers we expected the need for them to be temporary - Sadly no consumer-protective laws have been enacted to ***ure E10 gas sold meets ASTM quality guidelines. So instead of wasting time discussing my small company, I strongly urge everyone here to contact their state and federal legislators to protect your right to appropriate gasoline types and increased monitoring so you no longer have to question the quality of fuel everytime you fill-up. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions. Good Night:) Gail

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There’s something definitely fishy about this email and website! Both the email and the website are nothing more than an advertisement for a product they happen to sell - and they are targeting Florida residents. It is fraught with inconsistencies and misinformation. Read the disclaimer on manufacturer’s warnings from the site:

“* Note: Marine data listed above from report in 2003 by Ethanol RFA and Hermann & ***ociates;

Since then (2004 to 2009) almost all marine manufacturers now allow use of E10 fuel, although several still issue strong warnings against it's use and/or specific precautions necessary.â€

Almost all? (Condensed for space)

I'm trying to think of a polite term to call you a "fool", but none comes to mind. Are you suggesting that marine manufacturers recommend water-absorbing ethanol blends of fuel? If yes, you've been living in a cave. It was because of the 2004 "Renewable Fuel Standards" that manufacturers had no other choice than to allow E10 2004-onward. If not, they would be unable to sell engines in states that have mandatory ethanol-blending laws. Who would buy an engine that listed non-ethanol fuel, in a state where it is no longer available?

NMMA, Mercury and many other major marine companies have fought endlessly trying to obtain exemption from ethanol for marine engines (similar to aircraft).

Below is a few links to keep you busy reading instead of wasting time trying to insult companies you've never even called or spoken to.

We receive hundreds of emails/day - If yours was not answered, simply pick-up the phone and call us - They listed our phone number here, plus it's all over our website.

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/pdf/2003marine.pdf

http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/marine/index.html

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/ethanol.asp

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/documents/848/important_news_for_boat_owners.pdf

http://www.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwarranty/outboardfaqs/ethanol.php

http://capwiz.com/nmma/issues/alert/?alertid=13199386

The above links (sources of marine ethanol information) were randonly chosen - If you need more to realize E10 is not recommended for marine engines let me know - I have several hundred marine sources (publications & articles) that warn about the dangers of using ethanol and contaminated gas in a marine engine.

- And BTW nobody is forcing you to visit our website or learn about ethanol - keep trusting the quality of gas sold in Florida, I'm sure your mechanics will enjoy your frequent visits. I'm rarely this sarcastic, but your degree of arrogance is shocking.

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OK, let’s see...you join this forum to publicly call me a fool, and to call me arrogant. Perhaps you’d like to explain why you feel that way - you haven’t succeeded so far. In your second post, you ask me a question, “Are you suggesting that marine manufacturers recommend water-absorbing ethanol blends of fuel? “ Where, in my post, did I say that? Where did I suggest that? Was it this statement?

“...Since then (2004 to 2009) almost all marine manufacturers now allow use of E10 fuel, although several still issue strong warnings against it's use and/or specific precautions necessary.â€

That is a statement from YOUR web site! That makes ME a fool?

“Below is a few links to keep you busy reading instead of wasting time trying to insult companies you've never even called or spoken to.â€

For the record, your company never returned my call. Your company ignored my written request for a copy of the MSDS for your miracle chemical that costs next to nothing and lasts forever (according to you). Does that make ME arrogant?

Why didn’t you address the cost analysis I provided in my post - because I was correct? Truth hurts? I don’t really want a copy of your MSDS - I want you to post it here - show all the members of this forum the junk you’re tying to sell them. Are you afraid of the truth?

Just about everything in your post was a regurgitation of the drivel from your site. Just about everything on your site is plagiarized from other sources. You’re not trying to inform the public...you’re not trying to champion ethanol-free fuels...you’re trying to sell fuel test kits. Face it - you're nothing but a charlatan.

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MY GOODNESS. I would like to get in here and find some peace for the two of you, beginning with the identification of mis-***umptions (sp?) etc. and go from there.

It is almost 2AM and I am too tired to debait. ;) However, I know that both of you are aiming for the same target - safe fuel for boaters. I'll try to jump in with some substance this weekend - we will see.

Let's not all forget that we have ALWAYS agreed to disagree here on the MHPC forum while keeping any disagreement "polite", vulgar-free, and to-the-point of the disagreement. No personal insults and no off-point references etc are generally allowed. They DO get pulled from the forum. As they should be. I have had more than one post pulled as we all sometimes type away in extreme anger, frustration, both, or something else.

Please - I don't know either of you and would be very happy to meet both of you. But let's try to keep it calm and simple for all? This is simply a request from me. Thank you for your time and for listening (well - "reading). - Dan

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