centrofinatic Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 A few years back we had the trim/tilt tube "seize" up. Long story short, Yamaha, in their wisdom, had opted for regular versus stainless steel (which the newer replacement part 'suddenly' changed to a year or two later). This is an part with no zirc fitting, nor any other way for the user to maintain. Yamaha never did a recall nor publicly admitted to the problem. We were lucky and the dealer was able to heat and pound out the older part and replace it with the newer version, though I heard stories of completely frozen parts and nightmares with the dealers trying to work with Yamaha corporate. Fast forward to present-day. Our trim/tilt stops working 3 weeks ago. Boat and motor are 6.5 years old (2013) with just over 500 hours on them. Turns out the reason for the failure is a frozen similar "steel" part near the base of the assembly that has since been changed to stainless with no warning and no reason why. Instead of a @$575 trim/tilt motor, which absolutely failed due to the frozen part, we are now looking at having to replace the ENTIRE ASSEMBLY. $3,000. AYFKM??? Called and spoke with Yamaha - "sorry Sir, we can't do anything for you". They said almost verbatim to our dealer who went to bat strongly for us prior to my call. I bought Yamaha and my family and I have been loyal to them since the mid 1980's, owing and running everything from a 90 4-stroke, twin 200 HPDIs, my dad's 1988 225 2-stroke (still running strong) and our 2013 250SHO. I've had things happen in the past, but never without a satisfactory resolution. I'm not used to a lack of responsibility and customer service like this. This seems like a new thing for them. This particular item is a part that can't be maintained by the user, and was the manufacturer's decision to place two different metals together in a saltwater environment. Once someone at Yamaha realized there would be issues, they changed the replacement parts to the correct material, but they never issued a recall. It is my opinion that my feelings here are justifiable. Every outboard I've ever operated has been maintained to near perfection, and all scheduled service/maintenance completed at Yamaha dealers. Other than simply venting my frustration, my question is this - has anyone else had this issue and gotten any resolution from Yamaha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Yes and NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonV Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Capt. Troy said: Yes and NO! OUCH!!! Not a good answer.........especially from a Capt. who puts many hours on an engine and should be their biggest supporter AND ambassador! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centrofinatic Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, DonV said: OUCH!!! Not a good answer.........especially from a Capt. who puts many hours on an engine and should be their biggest supporter AND ambassador! The more people I speak to and the more I dig, the less optimistic I become. Unreal. Contrast this to when they used to build better products and actually stand behind them. A couple years back at the Miami Boat Show they recorded Jeanne and I on tape for a promotional video. We went on and on about how we've chosen and stuck with Yamaha due to reliability, safety and confidence in the product and customer care. Man, do I wish I could do that video now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 For all those who have had this issue, each of you file a complaint with the BBB. it can start to hurt when it really blows up on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyB Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Corrosion of one form or another has always been the Achilles Heel for yamaha. Corrosion around bolts that would not let them come apart without destroying the motor. Rotted exhaust sections . Yes it sux but they know it and they know there not going to repair all of the bad motors either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jh141 Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Mine is a 2012. I had the Steering Balance Shaft seize in the tilt tube. Yes, there is no grease fitting in that location (would be nice if there was) but it is easy to undue and grease. Problem was MBC did not properly lube the Balance bar when they installed the motor. I replaced the tilt tube and balance bar and used Teflon grease and it has been fine with no maintenance for seven years. There are also two shafts that hold the Trim and Tilt in place. THIS IS WHERE YAMAHA GOOFED! Neither are corrosion resistant. Maybe its a Rockwell issue. I have to yearly clean coat both of them. The top pin that connects the top of the tilt ram is easy. The bottom shaft holds the trim and tilt assembly to the motor. It is a little more complicated. I am unaware that Yamaha may or may not have changed the metals they use. Not Sure Why This Would Cost $3000.00 dollors to fix????? Change the whole Trim and Tilt unit because a shaft corroded ???? My Yamaha Trim/Tilt motor has been replaced. I now have an ABCO. half the price and lasting twice as long. By the way, We have current hands on experience with Yamaha, Evinrude, Mercury and Suzuki. YAMAHA by FAR is the best at corrosion "prevention", And by the way, We are not marine mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcathey Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 My SHO had/has the same corrosion issues and a buddy of mine built a makeshift puller to get rod out of tilt tube. A little heat and that puller gets it out. Then we drill the rusty tilt tube out and grease the you know what out of it. I do it once a year now so it doesn’t seize up or put stress on steering arm. The corrosion issues are my main issue with the motor. Other than that it’s great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centrofinatic Posted August 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 18 hours ago, jh141 said: Mine is a 2012. I had the Steering Balance Shaft seize in the tilt tube. Yes, there is no grease fitting in that location (would be nice if there was) but it is easy to undue and grease. Problem was MBC did not properly lube the Balance bar when they installed the motor. I replaced the tilt tube and balance bar and used Teflon grease and it has been fine with no maintenance for seven years. There are also two shafts that hold the Trim and Tilt in place. THIS IS WHERE YAMAHA GOOFED! Neither are corrosion resistant. Maybe its a Rockwell issue. I have to yearly clean coat both of them. The top pin that connects the top of the tilt ram is easy. The bottom shaft holds the trim and tilt assembly to the motor. It is a little more complicated. I am unaware that Yamaha may or may not have changed the metals they use. Not Sure Why This Would Cost $3000.00 dollors to fix????? Change the whole Trim and Tilt unit because a shaft corroded ???? My Yamaha Trim/Tilt motor has been replaced. I now have an ABCO. half the price and lasting twice as long. By the way, We have current hands on experience with Yamaha, Evinrude, Mercury and Suzuki. YAMAHA by FAR is the best at corrosion "prevention", And by the way, We are not marine mechanics. This is exactly what has happened with us - steering started to go and that's how we discovered the tube had seized. Unfortunately this time, despite time with an acetalyne torch and an air-hammer, they can't get the part loose. Only solution is an entire new assembly. Not happy about it at all. As long as Yamaha has been in business, they should know two different metals causes electrolysis. Heck, I bet even most 2nd graders know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 15 hours ago, dcathey said: My SHO had/has the same corrosion issues and a buddy of mine built a makeshift puller to get rod out of tilt tube. A little heat and that puller gets it out. Then we drill the rusty tilt tube out and grease the you know what out of it. I do it once a year now so it doesn’t seize up or put stress on steering arm. The corrosion issues are my main issue with the motor. Other than that it’s great This is the only issue I have had with the engine. Had to replace the trim seal on the main ram. It was a really lengthy process to get that pin out. Heat and an air hammer. I am out of warranty but did let them know they have an issue with some of the metals and believe they have addressed the issue on current engines. The motor outside of that has been flawless. I really didn't push the issue because of being out of warranty but they did acknowledge the problem. I should have done something about it when I noticed the rust stains at those locations. So that is why I answered the OP Yes and No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason p Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 I know it’s of no help at this point but once a year when the temp plummets (below 65) I perform “make sure it still comes apart” maintenance. -Water pump, regardless of hours -Pull the steering arms off and pull the steering rod out of the tilt tube, re-grease, reassemble -Pull the tilt ram bushing, re-grease At some point this stuff is going to need repaired or replaced and it’s usually seals in the steering ram or tilt/trim assembly. I don’t know if you’ve ever had to, or have seen anyone trying to remove steering arms that have been in place for a number of years or beat a lower unit off a mid section but it gets ugly. At $125-$155 an hour and then sometimes destroying the parts in the process, it’s worth the trouble once a year in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, jason p said: I know it’s of no help at this point but once a year when the temp plummets (below 65) I perform “make sure it still comes apart” maintenance. -Water pump, regardless of hours -Pull the steering arms off and pull the steering rod out of the tilt tube, re-grease, reassemble -Pull the tilt ram bushing, re-grease At some point this stuff is going to need repair, usually seals in the steering ram or tilt/trim assembly. I don’t know if you have ever, or have seen anyone trying to remove steering arms that have been in place for a number of years or beat a lower unit off the mid section but it gets ugly and at $125-$155 an hour and then sometimes destroying the steering arms in the process of removing them it’s worth the trouble once a year in my opinion. It would be nice if the dealer included that for what they get for the 100 hour service!💲 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason p Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 It would be nice but in all fairness they’d probably loose money on a lot of them... especially the time it sometimes takes removing frozen steering arms. I could afford to pay a dealer to maintain my boats but nobody is going to care about my stuff as much as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centrofinatic Posted August 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 Got the boat back yesterday and all the old parts, including the two pieces of the frozen tube and the old assembly with the remaining part in it they couldn't get out. Yamaha is not done hearing from us. I'd really like them to demonstrate to me what it is, as an owner, that I could have done to prevent this, and explain why this never seemed to be an issue with the 4 other Yamahas I've run and maintained. Also would like to see those specific instructions in the manual. Glad to have the boat home and usable again... but I'm now wondering what is the next domino to fall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterman7474 Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, centrofinatic said: Got the boat back yesterday and all the old parts, including the two pieces of the frozen tube and the old assembly with the remaining part in it they couldn't get out. Yamaha is not done hearing from us. I'd really like them to demonstrate to me what it is, as an owner, that I could have done to prevent this, and explain why this never seemed to be an issue with the 4 other Yamahas I've run and maintained. Also would like to see those specific instructions in the manual. Glad to have the boat home and usable again... but I'm now wondering what is the next domino to fall... btw, your avatar is fantastic. He's actually 6'5", with the afro 6'9", pretty good dribbler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason p Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, centrofinatic said: Got the boat back yesterday and all the old parts, including the two pieces of the frozen tube and the old assembly with the remaining part in it they couldn't get out. Yamaha is not done hearing from us. I'd really like them to demonstrate to me what it is, as an owner, that I could have done to prevent this, and explain why this never seemed to be an issue with the 4 other Yamahas I've run and maintained. Also would like to see those specific instructions in the manual. Glad to have the boat home and usable again... but I'm now wondering what is the next domino to fall... Can you take some pics, I think we (you and I anyway) are talking about different parts and I’m interested to know what seized up. I have a F300 and I imagine all the 4.2L motors share a lot of the same parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplec Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 I am curious too. My ole 96 is still functioning so it must not be what I am thinking of and I have never disassembled anything to grease em up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centrofinatic Posted August 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 Will do guys. Ill get pictures of the old part that seized up (and was able to be removed) and the most recent one as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jh141 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 If you want to replace the top and bottom pins and bushings for the trim and tilt on your SHO I found a company that makes them in stainless. They mainly do Trim/Tilt unit rebuilds and saw the need for these on the Showa T/T units. https://five-star-marine.myshopify.com/ OH....By the way, goofed last post, The T/T motor company is ARCO .https://www.arcomarine.com/ Five Star Marine 6902 Industrial Ave Port Richey, FL 34668 727-346-6912 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMG Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 wow!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1sh0n Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Yamaha and Mercury, probably others, had fresh and saltwater edition motors. Seems around 2009-2011 most manufacturers went to a single line. In my opinion Mercury went towards saltwater editions and Yamaha went towards freshwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason p Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 425 on a bass boat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeviam Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, jason p said: 425 on a bass boat? Almost. Here's one with a 300R Merc: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplec Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Saw that 300R engine hanging off a Lake and Bay over in Boca G last week. Looked slippery fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centrofinatic Posted September 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 Sorry for the delay, but I have some pictures to share. These are of the old trim-tilt assembly that got removed. The two small pieces are the pieces of the tube that had to be cut with an arc welder and could not be removed from the base of the assembly. You can also see the corrosion at the top from the original part that caused problems at the top a few years back. Yamaha truly did a disservice to their customers by making an error like this in the first place, and then denying it was an issue and not correcting it. Feel betrayed after many years and $$ of loyalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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