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About whichwaysup

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    Boat Hoarder


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  1. 2008 pathfinder 2000

    Get a survey.
  2. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    Actually, the good news is that it won't require the cockpit floor to be cut - should be fixable through the live well. But yeah, tough break. That's life, I suppose. You win some, you lose some, but you sure do learn a lot along the way!
  3. THIS is a sunrise

    What he said! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  4. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    LOL - yes, sorry, I overstated that. I meant, of all the fiberglass guys/surveyors/insurance guys that looked at it, he's the first one that actually said "clean it up so I can see what's really going on." I'm just amazed that nobody else felt the need to see it cleaned up to make a diagnosis. As for pulling the cap, Bob (and several others) were pretty adamant that doing so would be a last resort and could actually cause more damage than good. I was surprised, but it does mean that the work will have to be done by removing the port live well, which will be interesting to replace. As for dilly dallying, I hear you. This is driving me nuts. The first fiberglass guy who was going to do the work jacked the price up by 1200 from his original estimate, then went completely AWOL on me. I had another guy come out and look at it and, to his credit, say "I'm not fixing something until I know what caused it, because I don't want the issue to come back later." I've got two other guys looking at it now for estimates and opinions. I REALLY miss having my boat. It's killing me.
  5. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    Hey all - The saga continues . . . I am amazed by how many different opinions there are on what caused this and what can be done to fix it. It seems that the ONLY people who think it wasn't caused by any impact of some kind are the insurance company and the surveyor, but that's water under the bridge now. I reached out to (member) Bob at Inshore Marine Specialties to get his thoughts and I have to give him some serious props. Here's a guy down in S. Florida who is not only willing to take time out of his day to help a guy hundreds of miles away, he's also the ONLY guy that has given me advice that actually got me closer to a solution. His advice? Simple - clean the bilge area thoroughly and see if there is more to the story than you think there is. Brilliant - and not a single other person who's looked at the boat asked me to do that, and I (not the sharpest tool in the shed) didn't even think of it myself. But when I did it - Eureka, the problem gets clearer. Attached are some photos of the same area that you have seen earlier in this thread. Now that it is clean, we're not 100% sure that there is actually any cracking on the top of the stringer at all. What appeared to be cracks MAY just be a seam in the fiberglass . . .or it may be a crack. Even with my Go Pro in there, I can't tell for certain. Some angles it looks like a crack, in others, a seam. What IS new is that there is DEFINITE cracking along the base of the stringer all the way from the transom extending forward to the bilge pump. It seems to stop there and there isn't any other sign of damage visible forward of that. The crack shows much more separation near the transom than it does going forward. So, how about some opinions - any thoughts on cause and fix? Pic 1: Top of stringer, potential crack barely visible on left side. Pic 2: Looking at the stringer from a side view, looking 45 degrees forward and to the port side. Cracking very visible in the base of the stringer. Pic 3: Close up of Pic 2, cracking visible both along the base of the stringer and running from point to point of the outside edges. Pic 4: A close up of the area where the stringer meets the transom - port stern corner Pic 5: A view looking forward towards the first transverse (from the stern). Damage doesn't (visibly) extend past the bilge pump. All remaining pics - top of stringer. Is that a crack or not????
  6. Stuck in Choko mud

    PUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSHHHHHH! Lol, been there, done that!
  7. kevlar hull on 87 MA

    you know what, You may be onto something. I always said that boat was a lot lighter than my 2000. The console is definitely CF, but I never considered the hull being CF because of its age. Dang, I think we need to renegotiate the price I sold it to you for if it is a CF hull! Hope it is, I always knew she was special!
  8. The final boat accessory!

    Do they come with Salt Life stickers pre-attached or do you have to put them on yourself?
  9. crazy video!!!

    Dang, I kept thinking, "it will turn, it will turn. . . " dang
  10. Are the rod holders structural

    You are talking about the horizontal, under gunnel rod holders. I am not sure, but I do theink they support the gunnels.
  11. kevlar hull on 87 MA

    No, This was a scott deal/ maverick boat. no wood. I confirmed that when I bought it with Scott/Skip. I think Maverick started building these in 85, but not 100% on that. I dont think that boat is kevlar, I dont think they introduced that until much later. I could be wrong though.
  12. Batteries discharge overnight sorta

    I always had that same experience. Every ramp I went to, someone always asked about her. I remember my first trip with her after I bought her, some guy at the ramp offered me cash on the spot for her, and it was a lot more than I paid a week earlier. I politely declined and never looked back!
  13. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    I realized I never showed the external view of the crack - I marked the edges of it with the black - you can see it runs about 11' from just in front of the port trim tab forward, right along the strake.
  14. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    For those interested - here's what the issue looks like from the inside. To orient you, imagine this: You are laying on the rear deck with your head down in the splashwell, your feet are towards the bow, your head is smashed up against the engine/steering hydraulic lines/throttle cable. You are looking from center stern towards the port side of the boat, then slightly forward towards the bow. The issue runs along the port side stringer from the transom forward to about the back 1/3rd of the boat. For those of you with MAs, the separation appears to stop about a foot or two before the front edge of the rear deck/seating. EDIT: The pictures came up in a different order from what I uploaded, so I've corrected the order. Look at the pics from last to first to follow along. The second to last pic is looking at a 45 degree angle from the splash well access towards the port and shows the best view of the separation. You can see some pink foam, which represents a fairly new widening of the crack. Jump up to the first and last pics and you can see separation of the tabbing that is much older (according to the surveyor). He could see both new and old separation, consistent with a long time issue that has gotten significantly worse recently. The third and fourth pics are looking more forward, you can see the center baitwell in the left of the pics and the port livewell in the upper left hand side of the pics. IN the left center of the pic, you can see the crack running forward, and in the dead center, you can see what appears to be the area where the crack runs perpendicularly across the stringer. The first and last pics show the tabbing where the fiberglass cloth that covers the stringer is (supposed to be) bonded to the hull. You can see what looks like an oyster shell kind edge where the tabbing is pulling away from the hull - this was likely the first separation that grew worse over time.
  15. Learn from my mistakes - Insurance Learnings

    Hey all - I wanted to provide an update to this, as several of you have asked. Here's the latest: In the end, the insurance claim was denied and although I wasn't terribly happy about that outcome, I have to admit that it appears to be a fair and accurate decision. My policy (and yours as well, if you are with Progressive) does not cover manufacturers defects, structural deterioration, or basically any damage that doesn't involve a specific event involving an impact. I fought Progressive pretty fiercely when they indicated it wouldn't be covered, because I knew that this crack wasn't there when I bought the boat a year ago, and the boat was in near pristine shape otherwise - no abuse, no neglect, etc. How in the world could you say a sudden crack didn't have a sudden cause??? To their credit, after enough battling, they agreed to get a third party surveyor to do a causation analysis. What I learned may be of interest to all of you. First of all, let me AGAIN reinforce the importance of getting a survey on a boat BEFORE you buy it REGARDLESS of the perceived condition it is in. Contrary to Dino's comments that "I missed something" - the surveyor admitted that the boat was in exactly the shape that I thought it was when I bought it. There were no signs of repairs, no signs of abuse, the boat was pristine. So, how did this happen? The surveyor inspected the entire boat, then zoned in on the area in question. He tapped on the hull below the crack and moved forward and instantly he identified the issue (he hadn't looked inside the boat yet, and I hadn't told him what I knew). Without seeing the inside, he was able to identify a) that the stringer was separated from the hull, and b) almost exactly where the issue started and stopped. A year ago, 10 taps by an expert would have saved me a lot of money. He then looked down into the bilge and even he had a hard time seeing the problem initially. It's not something the average person would be able to see easily unless a) they knew what to look for or b) already knew there was an issue to look for. At the end of the day, here's what he told me: 1) This issue has been an issue since the boat was built. In fact, it was the very fact that the boat WAS babied that hid the problem for so long. 2) The cause, in his opinion, was that, somehow, at the time of manufacturing, the stringer was never properly bonded to the hull. He had several theories about how that might happen, but they are just that - theories. I spoke with Ray at MBC about the various theories and Ray felt pretty strongly that the way these boats are built wouldn't allow for them to occur the way the surveyor suspected. I have no doubt that MBC builds great boats and has great processes to ensure quality - there's a reason we're all on this forum. But in my boat's case, something went wrong and the stringer wasn't bonded properly in the back. Over the years, that stringer had come loose, starting in the back and the separation began working its way forward. 3) The surveyor was pretty clear that this is a common problem among ALL boat manufacturers. To his knowledge, it wasn't something common to MBC, but really all manufacturers occasionally have issues like this - it's rare for each manufacturer, but for the industry, it's not all that uncommon. I just got "lucky" and got one of those that had this issue. I assumed that the boat's condition and care protected me from some structural "unknown" lurking below the decks, but in fact, the condition actually worked against me. Had this boat been used more heavily during its life, the issue would have emerged long before now. 4) For $500 bucks, I could have found this issue before I bought the boat and had it addressed before the purchase, not purchased it, or had the cost of the fix included in the purchase price. Instead, what was a very good deal a year ago will now be a fair-to-not great deal in the end. I want to be clear, however - While everything the surveyor found and told me indicates that this issue was caused by some issue during manufacturing (i.e. the stringer not bonding), I am not deriding the quality of MBC boats. My last MA was 30 years old and structurally strong as a moose. No manufacturing process is defect free, but I think we can all agree that MBC boats have less than their fair share of these. The whole point of this thread is - even when you buy a top brand, even when you buy a used boat in great condition - GET A SURVEY. Things happen, even in the best of the brands out there and sometimes they can lurk undetected for 17 years before manifesting themselves. So, now I need a little help. I'm going to fix this boat - I love it and plan to use it for a long long time - it meets the needs of my family perfectly for the areas I fish. I just need a HIGH quality place to take it on that is willing to document the fix start to finish so that, if I ever do sell it, the buyer will have confidence in the hull. I'd love to have Bob at Inshore Marine take a look - if anyone knows him and can point him to this thread, I'd love his opinion and it may even be worth my effort to get it down there to fix. I've tried a few places up here in NC, but am having a hard time even getting responses. Help me get her fixed.